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Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by daniel, Feb 14, 2012.

  1. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Good for you. But that's you, not the other 99.8% of the human population. The average person has no interest or expertise in building their own computer, nor should they be faulted for it. Most people have no idea how refrigerators work, as an example, let alone build one, but that doesn't stop them from knowing how to use them. The odd person builds their own car, too, but that's pretty rare, and it takes more time and money to do that than simply buying one. Economies of scale and specialisation have gotten society much further than if we had to do everything for ourselves.

    In other words, you're to be congratulated for building your own machine, but that doesn't mean every other machine is inferior and overpriced.
     
  2. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    to the melody of Rehab: "The network admin told me I should uninstall IE - I said No, no, no"
     
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  3. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Senior Member

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  4. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    How could I screw that up? Oh, let me count the ways! ... Nope. I can't count that high.

    It's great that this stuff is out there, but I'll keep buying ready-made.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I had wanted to get a Mac back in the day. Going Intel was a bit of a put off for me (most of my machines have been AMD), but my interest was lost after I got a closer look at an iPod. With the multitude of digital music formats out there, paying extra to be tied to one didn't sit well with me. With some PC companies offering machines with factory installed Linux, I see no reason to consider a Mac in the future.

    And what can the iPod/Phone/Pad plug do that an USB one can't? I only needed to pack one cord to charge my phone and Kindles while on vacation last week. If it was of vital importance, one could also have their MP3 player and camera supported by the same USB format.
     
  6. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    This is generally how I feel about Apple products. They make nice products that are pretty, well integrated, and generally reliable, but to use them you have to join the commune. It's the Apple way or the highway. I can't fault Apple for that approach; every company has to make money. They do it by locking you into Apple. I don't like it, so I choose to go another way.

    Tom
     
  7. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    In chronological order:

    I got an iPhone because I needed a new PDA and new MP3 player and wanted a new phone anyway, and the Android hadn't been invented yet.

    I got a MacBook Air because I needed a new laptop and I refused to get one with Vista (the Windows flavor at the time), and hey, really really lightweight!

    I got an iMac because I once had to use Vista and swore "Never again!"

    I got an iPad 2 because it's even lighter than the MacBook Air.

    I got an iPod Classic because more than once there was a certain song I had to hear RIGHT NOW, and even though I had it, it wasn't on my iPod.
     
  8. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I own three Apple products:

    iMac, because 4 (?) years ago I could not get Linux to work for me and I was sick and tired of Windows. For me, it was the only alternative that was going to work.

    iPod Touch, which I use for music, podcasts, and other spoken content; and for email and web browsing when I travel. I also have a few games on it, and some pictures, so I can show off my cars, me with dolphins, me skydiving, etc. I have bought a few songs from the iTunes store, but 99% of the music I have on it is from my CD collection. So, other than a few 99 cent apps, I don't feel tied to Apple at all with the iPod. It's true I use iTunes to download podcasts automatically, but those are free.

    Airport Express, for travel: For when I'm going to be at a hotel that has Ethernet but not Wi-Fi for internet access.

    My telephone is not Apple. It's a Samsung, and it's a stupid phone (i.e. it just makes phone calls).

    I like Apple products, but I don't feel in any way tied to Apple.

    Oh, I almost forgot, I also have an iPod Mini in the Tesla so I don't have to remember to bring the iTouch out to the car every time I go anywhere.
     
  9. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    You don't feel tied to Apple because you are happy to stay within Apple. This is exactly my point: Apple makes good products, but to use them you have to do it the Apple way. It's not a limitation or problem if that works for you.

    For those of us that want or need to work with more diverse software and hardware, or just want more control and customization, Apple is confining.

    Apple's forte is simplification. They design for neophytes and casual users. The designers have done a good job automating tasks. The problem comes when you want to do something not explicitly foreseen by the designers: you can't do it. This is a common problem with highly automated systems: any task is either easy or impossible - there is no middle ground.

    Adding to this is Apple's philosophy to keep users inside the fences. Apple is like Disney World: everything is clean and bright, but only Disney employees are allowed into the back rooms. Apple works very hard to control all aspects of the user experience. It's both a blessing and a curse. For me, the curse outweighs the blessing.

    Tom
     
  10. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    When I say I don't feel tied to Apple, I mean that none of my (very few) Apple products requires me to use another Apple product, except that the iPod requires iTunes. But iTunes is free and I don't have to buy anything from them. My music is from CDs (with the exception of a few songs) and goes onto the iPod via iTunes for free. Podcasts come from iTunes, but they are free, and my Teaching Company lecture series and audio books come from non-Apple vendors, and then iTunes puts them on the iPod at no cost. (That is, I don't pay Apple to use iTunes to manage the iPod.) I do use the Airport Express with the iPod when I travel, but I could use any other wi-fi travel router. And since other MP3 players come with their own software, using a Mac does not require me to use the iPod. It just happens to be the best device for my needs.

    I understand what you're saying about flexibility. That was why, way back when I owned my Kaypro 2X, my first computer, I switched from Basic to C for programming. But that's a separate issue from being tied into Apple hardware.

    Again, I like the Apple products I have, but I don't have very many. I buy them because they are good, not because only another Apple product would work.
     
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    There is some truth to this general statement, but a lot of the 'under-the-GUI' hooks are available through the terminal.

    I know my son happily SSH's from his notebook Mac to a Linux box in his office while programming in python and seeing the graphical fruits of his labors in X11.
     
  12. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    IMO, modern day Apple tries hard to rope customers into an Apple-only hardware and software world, but it does not prevent the motivated customer from straying. Big carrot, no real stick.

    This week I finally (!!) convinced my wife of the importance of backing up her photographs (to preserve our marriage and my sanity), and to use keywords embedded in the photo file rather than proprietary organization schemes. iPhoto, while quite slick, keeps metadata in a proprietary format so it was unacceptable. A little googling later, and we picked Picasa as the photo software. And while iPhoto is the default app that opens when a camera is attached, it is easy enough to pick a non-Apple app instead.

    I fail to see the problem, at least for our uses. In the meantime the advantages of OS X and great Apple hardware are a joy.
     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    You aren't required to use other Apple products, but practices like their iPod plug does place hindrances in the way of using non-Apple products. I admit to not considering it before, and it is still low priority when shopping new gadgets, but is was nice realizing I only needed to pack one standardized charge cord for multiple devices for a recent trip.

    Just because it's free doesn't mean there isn't a cost. iTunes is subsidized by Apples proprietary digital music format. Through the licensing fees producers pay to make and sell files in that format. Which they have to do in order to offer anything directly to the iPod. (Aside, does itunes convert mp3 and other formats to apple?)
     
  14. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    One of the big benefits of Apple being unable to produce their own operating system. At least they were forced into using a decent OS, even if they decided to add some Proprietary software over it. Apple's OS is decidedly better since they switched to UNIX. It was pretty much a disaster before that.

    Tom
     
  15. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    For me, it's a blessing. Downtime can be very expensive and frustrating, so reliability and a human being on the other end of the help line is important. I respect and admire the people who design and fix the machines, but I don't want to be one of them. When the computer works as well or better than any other appliance in the house, that's a good thing.
     
  16. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    The only thing I use iPhoto for is to transfer photos to my iPod. I treat it like a file folder that automatically updates the photos on the iPod.

    I disagree: They are making it easier to use more of their products, but using alternatives is just as easy as it was before. My car has an iPod connector. This makes it easy to use my iPod Nano in the car. But it's no more difficult to use another MP3 player than it would have been if the car didn't have the plug. Apple has not made it more difficult to use another company's product, just easier to use their own. That's just good design.

    Again: They're making it easier to use their products, not harder to use others, nor are they blocking others. I carry three chargers & cords when I travel: phone, Kindle, and iPod. If I had an iPhone I could leave one charger at home. That in no way makes it more difficult for me to use the non-Apple phone I do. One tiny, extra charger in my pack is no big deal. And I can charge everything at once.

    Yet again, those costs are there whether I use iTunes or not. I pay nothing to use iTunes that I would not pay if I used a different program to transfer my music.

    Agreed!
     
  17. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    Was it because the notebook was running Windows Vista?

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    I've personally used Vista. Shooting is too good for it.
     
  19. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    On the picture above - his 15yrs daughter was grounded, then later riped her Dad (pictured) on Facebook. Her Dad found out about the postings - Facebook is so secure. :rolleyes:

    So he makes this YouTube giving her the Riot Act, then shoots her notebook - it went viral.

     
  20. Corwyn

    Corwyn Energy Curmudgeon

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    Name one.

    I use Windows at the moment, since it was provided by my work, but I frequently try to do something which would be easy on my old Mac, and can't find any way to do it on windows (XP). I have never noticed the reverse. No 'wow I could never have done that on a Mac'.