Leviton wants $1800+ to put in EVSE

All,

At HomeDepot.com a search for Electric Car Chargers displays -
Search Results for electric car chargers at The Home Depot


Leviton PORTABLE Evr-Green 12-Amp Blue Level 1 Electric Car Charger

Model 002-EVC11-300 $899.00
Internet Special $899.00 Free Shipping




GE Residential Electric Vehicle (EV) Level 2 WattStation with Plug

Model EVWSWBC-CP01 $999.00
Internet Special $999.00 Free Shipping




Legrand Electric Vehicle Level 2 Charging Station

Model L2EVSE16 $749.00
Internet Special $749.00 Free Shipping



Schneider Electric EVlink 30A Level 2 Electric Vehicle Charging Station

Model EV2430WS $799.00
Internet Special $799.00 Free Shipping





Leviton Evr-Green 16-Amp Blue Level 2 Electric Car Charging Station

Model 002-EVB22-3PM $999.00
Internet Special $999.00 Free Shipping


Legrand also has a portable Level 1 charger and Home Depot is suppose to have, but it's not in the search results.
Level 1 Portable EV Charger - L1EVSE




Leviton is just EXPENSIVE !!!

 

Can the 30A chargers be throttled to 20A or less?

I have a 20A breaker and corresponding cable for a 240V outlet; since the 30A chargers don't seem to be more expensive than the 16A ones - is there a way to make sure they don't draw more than 16A (e.g. if a Tesla or future-plugin-car comes along and wants to use my charger)?

 

Most cannot be set lower than their designed maximum, that's why I suggested getting the EVSE upgraded, it will by default use 12A @ 240, but can also be upgraded to handle the full 3.3KW charger at 16A @ 240V, both of which work on a 20A breaker, and will cost you 1/3 of these ridiculous prices.

FYI, because most of these EVSEs cannot be set lower, that then drives electrical service upgrades and larger permit fees and labor costs, get it?

 

Yes, that exactly was my motivation - the house has only 100A and putting in a 30A or more circuit would push it over the brink

 

Guys,
I have 200A service, and a Dencor energy demand controller, which has instant and constant KW usage readout. Even at non-peak times (no demand control) I have rarely seen more than 17KW usage at any time, H2O heater, HVAC, dryer etc on at the same time. (An electric hot water heater cycles at 4500 watts when on, 4.5Kwh) and takes the most electrical usage. Many of you have gas H2O heaters. Without knowing your equipment, just have an electrican check it out. You'd be surprised how little draw there is at any one time. When unknown, electrical draw can be easily measured. Always know what you are dealing with to make sound decisions.
Watts are amps X volts (either 120 or 240V) Do the math either way. It's still all a big secret. :scared::spy:

Pineprius

 

While this is true for the LEAF, Tesla Roadster and I believe the Volt, this may or may not be true for the PiP. We'll have to wait for someone with a TED or similar to see if the amount of energy it takes to charge a PiP from empty changes based on charge rate.

pEEf can very likely modify it for 240V operation, but if it's like the Panasonic unit that ships with the iMiEV, it can't be upgraded to 16A operation - but doesn't the PiP only pull 240V/12A max anyway?

If charging at 240V instead of 120V generates any excess heat in the battery pack then Toyota picked the wrong cells to use in their pack. Given that the pack can handle at least 20-30 kW of power (during regen) I doubt a piddly ~3 kW is going to affect it much.

 

Don't EVER question me !

(except of days that end with a 'Y'.)
But so the main thought doesn't get lost ... those few kW's are not gona heat up the pack. It's pretty much a trickle charger on 120v, and too not much more delivered through the onboard charger using 240v. I'm starting to wonder if manufacturers are going low charge power to mollify the utility companies. These traction batteries could easily handle 30 amps if their on board chargers were sized up. With the state of charger technology, if the cells actually did start to get warm (during the last 15% of charge or so, the wattage could simply be throttled down.

 

It's very likely that Toyota is using the exact same 3.3KW charger than Nissan is using (so it will have the same loss characteristics as well), so the max it can draw is 16A @ 240 (do the math). If the Panasonic EVSE Toyota is sourcing is built with 12AWG wire, it will be upgradeable to 16A, which will make it the equivilant of any wall mounted EVSE, for this generation of EVs. If its built with smaller wiring, (aka as the Volts is), then no, it will just squeek by for its supplied use at 12-13A @ 120V (only would require 14AWG wiring)

 

No, it's not likely that Toyota isusing the same charger. The PiP battery is only ~200V - the LEAF battery is nearly double that.

Most of the additional loss when charging the LEAF (and the Tesla Roadster, for example) comes not from electrical losses in the charger, but pumping losses from pumping coolant to cool the charger (and the battery in the case of the Roadster). The LEAF appears to pump coolant the same speed regardless of charging speed - the Roadster appears to have a minimum pumping speed which doesn't slow down any further once charging below 240V/24A or so.

I do not believe the onboard charger for the PiP is water cooled, it appears to be air cooled only.

The Toyota supplied EVSE is very different in appearance to the unit supplied by Nissan/Mitsubishi. It's probably still supplied by Panasonic given their relationship, but I highly doubt they equipped it with 12ga wire given the effort Toyota went to optimize the cost of the vehicle.. I suspect that if the PiP did 240V/16A Toyota might quote the 240V charge time as ~1h15m instead of ~1h30m.

So what PiP owner here is going to confirm the maximum 240V charge rate? I could not find a current spec anywhere on the Toyota site or in the owners manuals online.

 

I wonder what's considered 20 feet. Technically I'd be within the 20 feet, but my electrical panel is on the floor below my garage.

Are you saying they charge $100 just to give you a quote?

 

WOW! The permit charges are outrageous! I didn't have to pay anything like that here in Sacramento! I had my level 2 installed on December 29th - I really wanted to take advantage of the tax credit before it expired on the 31st. Yay! I made it!

 

BTW - I had another reason for installing my level 2 charger (and wanting to get the tax credit) even though we technically don't need it - I assume all my vehicle in the future will use it!

 

Your PiP will draw only 16A, so there's no need to throttle anything. For safety, you should definitely wire the entire line from the circuit breaker to the EVSE with the proper gauge of electrical cable, so if, for any reason, current draw exceeds 16A, you won't have a fire.

For the PiP, install a 20A breaker on either 120V or 240V. If you want to support a higher amperage EVSE, use thicker cable from the breaker to the EVSE, and a correspondingly higher breaker. No harm in that at all. I had 150 Amp service installed a few years ago. The main panel feeds to a 150A breaker. A 100 Amp breaker feeds our home's sub-panel, and those breakers total much more than 100 Amps. The main panel also has breakers for our water heater, AC and furnace, an will hold a breaker for the EVSE.

100 Amp service can support a 20A or a 40A breaker. The worst thing that can happen is that you'll trip a breaker. What's important is that the wiring from the circuit breaker to the outlet is sufficient to support the amperage, so it won't overheat. The whole idea is to ensure that the circuit breaker is the point of failure.

There are lots of appliances in a home that can draw 240V and high amperage for a long time -- electric ovens, clothes dryers, and AC units. Electricians know how to ensure this is safe.

 

The Prius Plug-in draws less than 15A and only needs a 15A breaker. From 2012 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid (click on "prius plug-in" under "prius plug-in hybrid FAQ":

 

True - but using a 20A circuit when pulling high current over long periods of time is never a bad idea. If nothing else the heavier gauge wire will be slightly more efficient so more of the power will go into your car and less into heating up wire.

Has anyone confirmed how much current the PiP will draw on 240V? Is it 12A or 16A there?

I assume that it's only 12A since the charge time is half - 240V/16A would let you charge in 45 minutes or so...

 

Sorry, didn't want to start a war. It's just that, if you're going to run a new breaker, I think 20A is a way better way to go, because it adds virtually no expense and gives more overhead in a circuit that will draw fairly high current for many continuous hours.

But, you're right, my opinion isn't fact. Mea culpa.