Hydrogenated vegetable oil or butter?

That wasn't meant to criticize you, but to add to the argument. Unfortunately Inuit are eating a lot more processed food, so its difficult of a good population study today. When people look at one thing in issolation it makes it easy to jump to the wrong conclusions. Its doubtful saturated fat helps inuit. Looking at the Japanese diet led to the old food pyramid where nutritionists looked only at macro-nutrients and not quantity or quality of foods.

I don't think things have changed, but could be wrong. Hydrogenated oils are used to stop peanut butter from separating, but the quantity of transfats are low. If your peanut butter separates, then it likely has no transfats - but I don't mind the tradeoff. Other natural fats could also be used but this is more expensive.

 

I don't use either.

I have a small jar of grapeseed oil, which I use a few times a year when I have a craving for oil-popped popcorn. A six-ounce jar will last me a couple of years. I also have a 7-ounce can of spray canola oil for the pizza sheet. I bought it six years ago when I moved to Spokane. Lately it's begun to spray unevenly, so six years may be near its end.

I have no butter, margarine, or lard in the house. If I want a spread, I like hummus or ground up cooked beans.

Fats do taste good, but no food tastes as good as being healthy feels. Fats are necessary in the diet, but a balanced diet contains plenty of fats naturally in the food. If I was going to cook for a girlfriend, and I wanted to impress her with how good a cook I am, I'd use some butter. But I much prefer to cook without added fat, and as a spread, butter is just grease, and I don't like greasy foods.

Exercise.

Good point: Lower heart disease, earlier death from other factors.

I would sure hate to work on THAT dairy farm!

And for that reason it's very un healthy. Transfats are not the only bad fats. Transfats are worse than saturated fats, but saturated fats are plenty bad for you.

The law allows them to lie. If it's less than a legal limit, they get to say zero.

 

I prefer the taste of natural peanut butter. The ones that don't separate typically have sugars and other crap in them. They just don't taste real.

The ones that do separate are a lot of work to mix back together, but it's worth it.

OTOH, peanuts have a higher ratio of fat to protein than any other legume, and are less healthy (but cheaper) than nuts. (Always sold as "nuts" and with "nut" in their name, peanuts are not nuts.)

You can buy nut butters, and in my opinion, they taste better than peanut butter. They're also more expensive.

 

Some of the older artificial sweeteners (cyclamates) posed a cancer risk, but there's no scientific evidence of any health risks from aspartame or splenda. The real problem with artificial sweeteners is that people may feel they're being "good" by using an artificial sweetener, and so will then eat other fattening foods. So the artificial sweeteners are a flop as a calorie control strategy. And may backfire if you overestimate the benefit of eliminating real sugar.

There's no harm in eating SMALL quantities of sugar. But in the quantities most North Americans consume it, it's a real health problem and a significant contributor to obesity and diabetes.

I like maple syrup, and I use agave when I want a mild-flavored sweetener. I also use stevia, and I sometimes drink root beer made with aspartame. I don't use white sugar for the same reason I don't eat white bread: It's too bland and flavorless. REAL maple syrup, yum! (Thanks, Canada!)

 

To generalize HORRIBLY, I think the problem with a majority of Americans Diets is overindulgence and inbalance.

I think the most important thing to "add" to your diet is moderation and responsibility.

I vote "butter" used sparingly and in moderation.

 

natural peanut butter often contains honey and/or sugar. You can be organic and only use peanuts, but hydrogenate some peanut oil. This would be organic but not natural. Palm oil seems to be an ingredient of natrual, non separating peanut butter.

I find the work not worth it. I do buy sugar free

This depends greatly on portion size. Peanuts are very healthy in small servings. ALmonds are even better. But once you make nut butters you are more likely to eat portions that are too big.

Oils are not created equal. My mother's side of the family has very high chloresterol. I've kept mine at a low level by eating more raw almonds and fish. Doctors almost put me on lipitor at 25, but had me work with a nutritionist. These oils help keep my fats in balance. A nut butter on bread is often a bad combination of simple carbs and fats. It can be good as a post workout snack though.

 

I buy pure peanut butter, but not organic. It contains only one ingredient: peanuts. I vastly prefer the taste of it compared to the sweetened stuff with added fat.

You are correct that "natural" and "organic" peanut butter may contain all sorts of extra ingredients; some for flavor, and some to prevent separation.

Tom

 

I cook in lard daily. I ordered a 5 gallon from here: U.S. Wellness Meats — Our Animals Eat Right So You Can Too.

 

The problem with the SAD (standard American Diet) is not over consumption its about over storing fat due to metabolic derangement.

 

Can you post a link to this research?

I have not seen any studies that show Canadians out live Inuit people who eat a traditional Inuit diet.

 

I'm not sure there are any left.

 

There is a good reason for that. There is not a good population of Inuit that have a long life and have been on a traditional Inuit diet.

Here are some links and discussions from the first Google hit.
http://cavemanforum.com/diet-and-nutrition/inuit-low-life-expectancy/
We can not determine how effective a diet is without a large population following it. The first link in that link has a study that has inuit areas die 12 years younger than the rest of canada, so inuit themselves could even have more of a gap. We do have historical information

This can lead to some experiments which are being carried out. Genetics, diet, and exercise are all important. We had a segment on inuit and Masai in my kineasiology class, but focused on life style also. I don't think anyone that has looked at the research would propose a sedentary person eat a diet high in saturated fats and low plant material. But different research has shown that their are diets high in saturated fat that can be healthy. The main takeaway on fat from the class, was it is much less unhealthy if you burn off the fat calories no matter what the source. Polyunsaturated and monosaturated fats Omega 3 and other EFAs can have preventative properties. Seal fat contains combinations of the EFA that have been studied for prevention of CPD. The masai that live traditionally continue to drink large quantities of milk and eat large quantities of butter and have low CPD. They have added quite a bit of starch to their diets though. Those moving to the city have much higher incidents of CPD, but similar diets. The difference is a great deal more exercise, and eating some herbs with more heart healthy effects. No aboriginal group eats large quantities of factory farmed lard and stays healthy.

Deep frying in lard is a horible practice, but small quantities of food that are not nutritionally sound do not cause trouble. Most EFA in the fat is destroyed in the frying process.

 

When I buy peanut butter, I only buy the kind that is 100% peanuts and nothing else. That kind is usually organic, but does not have to be. I'll buy the organic if there's a choice, not because it's healthier (it's not) but because organic farming is healthier for the planet.

It does not depend on portion size. Peanuts have a higher ratio of fat to protein. However, it is true that in moderation peanuts are healthy.

It's also true that it's harder to moderate nut butters than nuts, especially on good bread. But bread itself is as healthy or unhealthy as its ingredients. You can get whole-grain bread without chemicals and it's healthy. Or you can buy white-flour bread full of drugs.

Which is why palm oil as a thickening or emulsifying agent is not good. It's not hydrogenated, but it is saturated. Same with coconut oil.

I don't eat peanut butter very often. Or nut butters. But when I do, I like them pure.

One exception: Nutella is really good. Unhealthy, but good. In moderation it's not too bad for you. We used to just pour chocolate syrup into peanut butter. Of course, in those days it was the artery-clogging chemical-filled peanut butter, on white bread. I'm talking fifty years ago. I switched to whole grains forty-odd years ago.

 

Daniel said

saturation of an oil refers to hydrogenation of double bonds. The hydrogen atoms can attach on the same side of the carbon (in a Cis config) or opposite sides (in a trans config.)

If the chain is completely hydrogenated a trans config is always present.

Or at least so says my aging memory of biochemistry.

 

...my organic chem memory is fading too, but your statement conflicts with a prior poster and Wikipedia

 

Butter.

 

Yep, my memory has failed somewhat. Thanks for the correction.

The hydrogen geometry is around the double bond, thus a completely hydrogenated (saturated) fatty acid would not be a trans fatty acid.

It is interesting that hydrogenation is used to convert Cis to Trans bonds, yet isomers remain (no net gain of hydrogen.) I'll have to ask my son about the energy states when I see him this weekend.

 

You had it mostly right. Hydrogenation is done to add hydrogen to the oil. This changes mouth feel, melting point, and increases shelf life Traditionally it was done by heating the oil on a metal catalyst in the presence of hydrogen. This produces both cis (same side kinky bonds) and trans (opposite side bonds) of the newly introduced pair of hydrogen atoms in different isomers. Since trans takes less energy, they are more prevalent in the process. If the process is allowed to complete, a saturated fat will be produced. The food makers want the product to be solid at room temperature but melt easily, which means they stop the process early. It was only recently that it was discovered that many enzymes in humans work on cis but not trans bonds in these fats, some other processes confuse trans and saturated fats. Some vendors are switching to an enzyme process that produces only cis.

Plants on the other hand use enzymes not catalysts to saturate the fat. These are all cis bonds. Some animals like cows will produce mainly cis but some trans fat in the unsaturated milk fat, butter does contain small amounts of trans fat.

 

I don't know the chemistry. What I was trying to say (apparently choosing my words poorly due to my ignorance of chemistry) is that although palm oil (and coconut oil, and maybe a few others) are not artificially altered by the food industry into the nastiness of "hydrogenated vegetable oil," with its load of even nastier transfats, it is (and they are) naturally nasty because they are saturated. Palm and coconut oils are unhealthy, so using them instead of artificially hydrogenated oils is not much of an improvement.

The advantages of adding fats of any kind to, for example, peanut butter, accrue entirely to the manufacturer, and not to the consumer. I try to avoid (and at home I almost completely avoid) adding fats of any kind to my food. I get my dietary fats from the natural food itself, typically nuts and grains and fish, though most foods have some natural fats, and these are almost always healthier than any of the fats used in processed foods. (I also avoid dairy fats, which are very unhealthy. So I use only non-fat milk products and I throw away egg yolks, which I regard as poison, since even with good weight, exercise, and healthy diet I have high cholesterol. Cheese is only a special occasional treat.)

 

...Daniel you need to take good notes here on Prius Chat because you may be the last one standing with your healthy diet.

These fats we are discussing are all tri-glycerides.
My cartoon below for palm oil or coconut oil mostly saturated.

C-O-O-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C
|
C-O-O-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C
|
C-O-O-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C=C-C-C-C-C

I stuck in one double bond for one mono-unsaturated C18 chain.
So to make bio-diesel, you mix with methanol to break down the chains, biodiesel looks a little like this:

C-O-O-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C

also known as FAME (fatty acid methyl ester)

...and you also make a lot of glycerol side by-product (below). There will be a glut of glycerol in the world market, if not already a glut.

C-OH
|
C-OH
|
C-OH