Someone bought five dollars in gas before I arrived

Well I'm sure glad you did. It was a fun read.

 

Wait a minute...
Somewhere in Europe the price of gasoline/petrol has a time-of-day
variable/incentive...
Like off-peak electrical rates? :noidea:

I can see a parallel, they are both energy after all.

A great idea from the consumer's perspective.

how would we get this implemented it in the USofA?

 

I don't know anywhere in Europe where this isn't the case!
Generally gas is cheaper before 10AM in the morning, Sunday night and most expensive Friday and before and during holidays.

Prices go up almost 18% at the moment the time strikes 10AM!

 

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this.
It isn't you, it's just so different...

I went looking for confirmation on the Inter-web, found this buried
in a thread:

PriQ, this little nugget deserves its own thread. :thumb:
I'm sure it will generate a lively discussion.
A thread title along the lines of should do it:

In Europe gas/diesel prices are lower at night than in the day...

I'd put right up front in the Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News Forum.

I'll give you first crack at it. :rockon:
If you don't want to, I will.

 

If you start the threads (it is very late in Europe).
I will add my local info. Right now we have Easter, where cas prices are fairly high, but that's only good for some data points.

 

New thread started on the day/night fuel price difference:

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-h...ices-whole-lot-cheaper-night.html#post1519065

 

You can check them yourself if'n you don't believe me.

CNGPrices.com - CNG trip planner


BTW: PG&E confirmed today that NG would cost me approximately $1.10 per GGE for home refueling. I'm sorry your's is so high. Those kind of prices just about take all the smug out of owning a CNG vehicle.

 

I known. In Portugal, Spain, Andorra, France, Italy, Switzerland and many more this doesn't happen. prices are the same at night or day.

Also there's many countries without CNG but where LPG is widely used.

 

So it's just a northern thing?
Germany, Denmark have it, but what about Sweden, Norway, Finland and Poland?

 

natural gas is cheaper. a LOT cheaper. i did use your map link (saved as favorite TY!) and it states a place about 20 miles from here at $2.20

as far as my current gas bill. NG has dropped in price around here by nearly 50%. right now its 38.7 cents per Therm with a 65.2 cent per Therm delivery charge.

if i look at my bill from 14 months ago. it was 81.29 cents per Therm with a $1.05 per Therm delivery charge.

i guess the big question; how much would it cost to set up a home filling station.

i also checked other CNG opts around here and they are all pretty expensive in the $2.50-$2.70 range but those places are used for filling propane bottles, etc. (not pricing propane mind you)

another question; how does a Therm relate to a gallon?

 

About CNG and LPG. In my country there's no CNG. Only LPG which is like 60% cheaper then gasoline. sometimes even more. like gasoline @1.8€/L and LPG @0.7€/L.
But unfortunately we are one of the only 2 countries in the world where LPG cars must have a stamp on it saying "GPL" (LPG). That's because we are also one of the only 2 countries in the world where LPG cars are forbidden to park in enclosed areas. Yeah insane. Fortunately this f***** stupid law will be changed in the next months.
I will certainly convert into LPG as soon as the law passes.
Just a tip, when making calculations, don't forget LPG cars consume about +20% more when converted. so, if it consumes like 5L it will consume 6L in LPG. Still, it's the best conversion to be made. LPG kits cost around 1500€ with installation. in most cases it pays of in just 20k km.
I really don't known why there isn't many more LPG cars around, mainly in other countries where there aren't this stupid laws.
Why don't manufacturers just implement it from factory? Only a very very few ones do it.
And about fuels, why don't manufacturers just make flex fuel engines like in Brazil?
It's so great, you can consume either ethanol or gasoline, so if the gasoline prices go up you fill with ethanol, if ethanol goes up vice versa.

oh well in the end we just need cheap EV's and good charging networks to save the world.

 

Which other Country is that? You sure it isn't the UK? There are certain restrictions here about where you can and can't go in an LPG converted car. I know they're banned from going through the Channel Tunnel and certain underground carparks. I also know in some road tunnels you need to let them know your car is converted so that they can escort you through.

It is also a requirement that all commercial use vehicles with lpg conversion must have a compressed gas warning sticker on the back and it is also good practice, though not a legal requirement, for private cars to have this sticker too (your insurers might insist on it).

The reason for this apparant madness is that if a vehicle with lpg catches fire it can become a bomb if the lpg cylinder does eventually fail. Even if it doesn't fail the car needs to be treated differently to cool the cylinder down over a longer period once the fire has been put out.

So there is a reason for what appears heavy handedness.

 

I was referring to Portugal and Hungry. LPG Didn't known they were banned in the tunnel... But it's so stupid, you can carry gas cans which are insecure.
LPG cars are actually MORE secure then gasoline ones. If it catches on fire it won't explode. Actually I've experienced it in real life. I had a big accident with a LPG car and it did catch on fire. Didn't explode. Otherwise I wouldn't be here to tell you.

 

They are LESS likely to explode but when they do you know about it and I think that's why they don't allow them. Have a search on youtube for exploding lpg cylinders. I'm not an expert but I think the tanks can get super hot without exploding but they hold that heat and need to be cooled correctly, but if they get too hot and the valve eventually fails then you have a super explosion or the tank takes off like a missile - not what you want in a road tunnel under a river or the sea!

Makes me wonder what will happen with hydrogen fuel cell vehicles where the hydrogen is stored under massive pressures. I'm sure it would be ok in small accidents but if it were caught in a fire and did let rip it would be horrific.

The following answers the problems encountered with dodgy or old and unserviced lpg conversions;

 

That's definitely part of the solution, but there's more to it, even as far as transportation is concerned. For example, changes in city zoning could allow people to work, shop, and play closer to home instead of having to drive all over the city. Other ideas like the 100-mile diet, and more personal food production, will mean fewer large trucks on the road.

So, in some ways, 'the car of the future' isn't really a car at all - it's a paradigm shift in transportation demand.

 

Sorry this took so long to reply. I talked to the PG&E rep for CNG vehicles and home refueling last Friday after completing the required training to use their refueling facilities. He stated that special prices can be arranged for both CNG and electrical rates if a CNG home refueling station is installed. Prive per Gallon Gas Equivalent "GGE" would be about $1.10. Why it costs twice as much at their pumps is a question I'd like answered.

Special Fed rebates were also offered for the purchase of a home refueling appliance but they have lapsed on 12-31-11. The Obama administration is contemplating additional incentives at present. They are also many regional rebates and incentives available.

I purchased my "Phill" refueling station after it was refurbished for $2800, regular cost is approximately $4500-$5000 although a recent call to the USA distributor elicited an admission that the cost would be reduced shortly by $500-$1000. The "Phill" appliance will fill a 3600psi tank at about .4-.5 gallons per hour. Great for commuters and around town type vehicles. Newer models are coming out that can fill at around 1-3 gallons per hour and the latest is a hydraulic model that could possibly do more than 3gal/hr and cost about half as much. This is pretty much speculation at the moment but that is IMHO the range necessary for home use, i.e. two working parents and a driving teen or two.