Hybrid XLE headaches...

I also vote "dead 12v battery". What's the voltage reading of the battery? If the dealer can't supply a number then they didn't properly test the battery. It's easy enough for you to test the battery. What's your reading?

IMO it's time to play hardball. Demand (politely) a new fully charged 12v battery from the dealer. Have them show you the voltage reading before installation. Point out that the customer satisfaction survey hasn't been submitted. Start the Lemon Law process.

Contact Toyota. Explain the situation & that the Lemon Law process is going to start.

Toyota is not going to buy back the car & scrap it over a dead 12v battery that is worth less than $200. I also doubt they will give you a spare 12v battery.

Ask the dealer what they intend to do to make you a satisfied customer. If you can't come to an agreement then slam them on trhe survey. Contacting the Sales Manager or owner should be enough to light a fire under someone's butt.

If the car didn't start on the lot why did you accept delivery?

 

Well you have to take me for a spin next time I'm in the area! :rockon:

 

It just simply does not make sense.

 

Re: It's the inverter?!??

That makes sense. The inverter (among other things) serves as the "alternator" for your 12 V battery. So it apparently wasn't charging the 12 V battery.

It sounds like the dealer is giving you the best possible solution to your problem.

- Chris

 

For future note, which may or may not apply to hybrid, cars make poor chargers. They can handle replenishing not lost charge of a start up fine, but if it died, the car may not be able to bring it up to full charge. Lead acids last longer when at 100% charge. So a dead battery should be charged by an external charger to prevent further abuse of being stored below 100%.

 

great dealership imo. i wonder why the car didn't throw a code?

 

i thought it was decent of them to offer a new one instead of fixing yours, but i havn't gone thru the hassle you have.

 

They should have held onto her car the first time and do a thorough investigation. While it could have been user error, they were suppose to go through all the basics with her and her husband from the get go and even then, even my parents were kind of squirrelish about their new Avalon and the light feature the first few days they had their car.

I doubt Ralleia wasn't that squirellish or concerned about some of the features of her new car such as lights and what not. Plus, if they had it all day, while I know a dealership is busy, they could have done a second or third test to see if it still had the problem, and if it did, then it required a closer check to see what was going on. With battery issues, especially in this situation, they should retest at different time intervals to see what is going on.

 

well, if they resell it as 'new', without disclosing the problems, i would lose all respect for them. i'm just saying, many dealers would not give you a new car. that's why the lemon law was created. what i don't know is how toyota plays into the whole financial obligation.

 

I think you should take a deep breath and stop worrying about how the dealership is running their business. They're doing the right thing by you after making a mistake. Get over it.

This is why I wouldn't work in retail.

 

I came away with the impression that you had a chip on your shoulder and were prepared to be aggravated and vocal going forward.

That's all.

 

Re: It's the inverter?!??

Yep, itis possible as the inverter (at least on Gen 2 Priuses and should apply to all Toyota HSD hybrids) contains a DC to DC converter that does charge the 12 volt battery as HSD hybrids have no alternator.

It is definitely pretty unusual for inverters to fail, at least on Priuses, esp. the DC to DC converter. People have killed their inverters via user error (by reversing polarity when jumping. DON'T DO THAT! Replacement cost is in the 4 digits) and apparently, earlier Highlander Hybrids have inverter problems.

 

Listen, with all the horror stories posted about interaction with dealerships and service centers, I think them giving you a whole new vehicle, that actually is an improvement in that it is the color you actually wanted, is a very good outcome.

I think under warranty all they really are obligated to do is fix the vehicle you purchased.

Sure, If I was in your situation, I'd be mad, disappointed and upset. But you are getting a new car.

But if it wasn't throwing codes, and was a brand new vehicle that might have very few if any miles on it at the dealership? How were they suppose to know the inverter was 1 in a Million defective? I think all dealerships assume the brand new vehicles sitting on the lot are "brand new" and functional.

Also automotive diagnostics is somewhat akin to medical evaluation. Often times if a problem manifests, like a dead battery, you do assume the easiest, or most simple explanation. Which (no insult intended) very often could be a new owner forgetting to properly shut off the vehicle, or leaving an accessory on. Just like someone with a cold or flu symptoms....1st you assume it is just a cold...unless the symptoms worsen or other symptoms manifest.

I sympathize that your new car experience got off to such a rocky begining. But Toyota Camry Hybrids have excellent reputations, and it may of just been the 1 in a Million defect that made it out of the factory.

And I think the dealership voluntarily exchanging your vehicle for a totally new one? Is an excellent outcome, that actually exceeds what they have to do per the parameters of the manufacturers warranty.

They could be offering you a rental car, while you wait for the new inverter to arrive.

I'd be happy that you are waiting for your totally new vehicle to show up.

 

I believe as long as the paperwork wasn't filed with the state the car is still new. The replaced inverter will show on the dealer service history. In NJ the dealer has to disclose repairs over $x on a new car.

As part of the delivery process I hooked up my Scangauge to the 2010 before I left the dealer's lot to check the 12v battery voltages.

Before signing the papers for the new car get the numerical voltage readings for the battery; not a display that reads "GOOD" or a green light.

IMO, the dealer is obligated to swap out the defective inverter & the 12v battery if the inverter failure damaged it and return the car to you. Instead they are swapping "your" car for the one you really want with less miles on it. I believe you are coming out ahead.

Do you have the right to be pi$$ed? Absolutely. In January or February 2010 when my shifter physically jammed I wanted the little slacker responsible crucified. If you look for my thread about the incident you'll find that I was much less than satisfied over how the situation was handled. The dealer relayed the story & a Toyota exec called to apologize. We ended up chatting for some time.

NOBODY gets paid for diagnostic work so NOBODY wants to do it & EVERYBODY does the barest minimum possible. This is the way the industry works so, quite frankly, it ends up being the owner's job.

EVERY part, component, subsystem or assembly has a failure rate. A manufacturing defect would show up quickly. In The Good Old Days computers went through a burn in cycle where they were continuously run for 24 or 48 hours. That cost time & money so new parts are assembled into computers & shipped out. In the rare instance something is DOA it'll be replaced.

You got a crap part. The chances of getting 2 crap parts is almost 0. (If it isn't then there is a bad batch indicating a manufacturing problem & failures would be widely reported.)

Relax, enjoy the replacement, and consider what the dealer can do to make you a satisfied customer.

In some 3 years my 2006 had 2 warranty problems. Early on I had ABS failure on my way to work. Towards the end of its life the dealer sold me a crap 12v battery.

In 2+ years my 2010 had the stuck shifter incident which has not returned.