NADA: New cafe rules price people out of market.

I'm messing with you. I believe in the same goals as you do. I just don,t agree with your timeline.

 

More Volvo's timeline, in production now, US by 2014 and my timeline is 2015.

Funny to hear Prius drivers making the same "it can't be done" comments by US auto makers when Toyota announced various stages Prius development. The same comments we hear from NADA about high mileage cars somehow pricing people out of the are market.

$20K for base 60 mpg Prius C isn't it?

 

Sure, 15yrs later.....

The Prius is EPA rated much lower than 60mpg. Let's keep things based on reality ok? Some people get 60mpg and others are getting 45-48mpg.

As for your Volvo, what will the MSRP be again? Hmm? Yeah that's going to be in everyone's driveway in 2.5yrs.

 

Yes, that one. I didn't know *any* cars were out for 2012, so call that a brownie point

How much do you expect that pig to hold ?

USD 75,000 ?

I'm thinking Tesla + PV for that kind of money. Unless of course belching out black sh1t from the exhaust is important to your green creds.

 

One minute you are saying it can't be done, now you find yourself haggling over the price of "impossible" in the show room.

RX450H is $60,000. Of course that doesn't get 124 mpg and is missing a few other option and performance features.

You were comparing similar vehicles, right?

 

I think those numbers are smelly, and by smelly I mean bull@*#(.

This would be a fantastic argument if not for the fact that there will still be many cars available for way under $30k. All it would, worse case, mean is that these "lower income" people simply are forced into a lower car than before.

I still can't believe how much money people spend on cars. I've seen the average income of people in the country, and I know a lot of people buy used, but $30k average for a new car is crazy. My household income is well above average and $30k to me seems obscene for a vehicle at this point. Partly it's because I price-shop like a fiend, though, so i get good deals

 

wy diesel wy bio disels
go ethanol or just full electic

 

Not to pick nits here....but according to Fuelly...the "C" model gets 50.something MPG...and I haven't seen one >$20,000 yet.

I expect those numbers to change somewhat, and the "C" is a pretty groovy car from what I've heard.

Just sayin.....

 

You call his stuff fantasy yet you claim diesels still belch out black smoke?

The only diesels that do that have been American made trucks that apparently people disable emissions controls to "look cool".

At least be reasonable...I suppose they are all loud and clackity too?

 

Team Toyota Mall of Georgia Buford Georgia serving Athens Hall

Here's 3 of 3.

 

Let's face it, regulations have added a great deal to the price of cars. These include pollution controls, safety measures, and fuel economy standards. The biggest hit to price is the added cost and weight of safety equipment. This follows through with the need for more powerful more thirsty engines. We are on very easy cafe standards today and yet car costs have the average age of a car at 10.8 years. Many have been priced out of the market with nothing to do with cafe.

Cafe standards do cause more equipment to be added, but they do not greatly make efficient cars more expensive. Since a manufacturer most hit a number they are forced to price more efficient cars cheaper subsidizing them with less efficient cars and trucks. This means cafe standards make efficient cars more affordable. NADA just doesn't like the facts. GM argued this and built ineffiecient cars that no one wanted leading to bankruptcy.

IIRC the volvo in question is around $70K. Once you go plug in, the efficiency of the engine matters much less, so oil use would not be appreciably higher in a turbo direct injected gasoline engine or an atkinson engine. This car is being built for europe, and there is a percieved value of diesel there, and less of a stigma for the higher emissions it will produce. Lets face it, in this application this will be one of the cleanest most fuel efficient diesels. Not a good recipe for america though. On a diesel side note the skyactiv diesel in the mazda 5 is selling much better than expected in Japan, a traditional non diesel country.

 

To smell like a french fry you need to modify the engine to burn WVO (filtered waste vegatable oil). Biodiesel can be made from that stuff or algae, but involves more processing and no longer smells the same.

diesels, plug ins, and hybrids can all be used to meet the new cafe standards. I doubt any of the major manufacturers will allow you to run WVO, the pollution control regulations are just not compatible.

 

So CAFE rules could price 7 million people out of the NEW car market.... I'll keep shopping for that 240SX without frame or body rust...

 

Yes, the rules may push up the price of its newer equivalants.

But they may also make cars lie the prius less expensive as fuel saving components drop in price.

The big shift is higher prices in SUV and CUVs, not higher prices in economy cars. In the future that monstrosity class SUV will not be affordable to many


54.5 MPG CAFE BY 2025 | News & Analysis content from WardsAuto

This allows for 3 generations of cars.

 

When someone actually walks out of a dealer at that price, I'll believe it. Otherwise those advertised prices with extras added are as low as you'll get. Hit request a quote then show me the quote under $20K

 

If you "Build Your Own" and then do locate, there seem to be several available at $20K. Those are actual on the lot cars and you can ask the dealer for a price.

My experience in shopping for a Prius C was that the low end models are what the Toyota is making and dealers are buying as Toyota's marketing plan is use the Prius C as the "gateway drug" to hybrid ownership.

All my dealer had were $20-22K Prius C's not the $25K loaded one he could have sold me instead of the $26K Prius3/3 with solar I ended up buying.

 

Gee.....mine doesn't, at least not by any amount that I can measure. When i first got "my" (company's) G3 I tinkered with tire inflations and trying to run a few tanks of E0 gas to see if I can quantify any measurable differences in tank-to-tank MPG numbers.
I don't pay for my fuel, so the 5-10 cent difference between E0 and E10 is a non-issue for me.
Didn't see much difference at all!
If I ramp my tire pressures up to OEM + 10-15 percent I 'thought' I could see a +2 MPG delta, but it became too much of a PITA to reduce pressures when the knuckle draggers came in to service my car, and then air them back up again afterwards----so I keep them at OEM now.

We don't have E85 in this area, and I don't have a yellow gas cap, and so that's a non-issue for me.
FWIW, I think that burning corn is less destructive than turning it into HFCS so that we can fatten our kids up with cola and Kool-Aid.
YMMV

 

You call it fantasy, then explain why your think it is seen ? LOL