Battery powered cars a tough sell.

^ That's certainly a valid point if you use the word payback. Less so if you use the phrase TCO...or Total Cost of Ownership, for which everything I buy has to meet a certain criteria, since I'm not one of the one-percenters out there.

I buy nearly...well...actually ALL of my vehicles lately as base models. This is because a vehicle has to meet certain needs, and usually even a base model vehicle is well appointed enough to meet those basic needs. When I owned 22 acres in addition to the 5 that I currently have, 4WD was a need. When I sold that piece of property......then I switched to 2WD, base model.
My next vehicle will probably be a sedan with a 1500# (or better) tow rating. This reflects my current estimation of having to haul less, drive on unimproved roads less, and still be able to meet my needs with a vehicle that gets 30-40MPG.

Somebody call me when there is an EV ready for my transportation needs and that meets my price point, and I'll come by for a test drive!

 

Well funny you should say that but Renault UK offer preferential hire rates for those times when a longer journey is required.

If you occasionally need to drive for a longer distance than the Fluence ZE range allows, such as if going on holiday, then Renault has set up a system where you get preferential rates for the hire of a petrol or diesel car.

http://www.green-car-guide.com/renault-fluence-ze-2.html

 

I think you only need to look at the Volt to see the potential for PHEV:
- if batteries get cheaper the Volt is a better buy and a Cruze PHEV could become a more accessible vehicle.
- if batteries get denser the Volt will become lighter, more efficient and could regain its 5th seat.
- People comment how well it drives: mid-range PHEVs have the torque to win over people who find HEVs too much of a performance compromise.

For BEV to win out there either needs to be gasoline-speed recharging or incredible advances in both price and energy density.

Of course for either to be really successful batteries will need significant improvement.

 

There needs to be a PRICE reduction.

Quick example. The new Euro market only Volvo V60 hybrid has been released at a UK cost of £47,000 !?!?! That range starts at £23,500 so the hybrid version is DOUBLE the base version cost. I know you get similar specs to the Volt with 30 mile EV range but even at $9 a US gallon over here, you'd have to drive a LOT of miles to make it worthwhile.

To give comparison of costs a base model Prius is £21,200 and a top of the range Prius is £24,000 and the plug in version is £28,000 AFTER the £5,000 government grant.

I'd like an EV or plug in hybrid. However, at those prices you'd have to be mad to consider one.

 

Austin, you are still missing the point again.

I am ONE of those people who wants a Plugin Hybrid. However, I am not looking at either the Volt or the Prius Plugin, one for car design, but two, my expectation of the infrastructure to be out there, and right now, it is not quite there.

I am not going to spend $40k to get a car that while it saves me getting gas more, leaves me feeling that I am lugging around a 9 gallon tank to cover the lack of public charging infrastructure if I decide to go driving beyond the electric range and have no place to recharge outside of that range and then rely on the 9 gallon tank to solve my problem.

And if it was 9 gallons of an alt fuel, one that is not as power dense as gas, you lose range overall, hence why I feel people shouldn't consider the range extension as something they should use heavily but consider it a safety blanket, enough to get you to a charging location, but again, if there is no charging location, I am limited to the maybe less than 333 miles. That is calculate from 37 mpg on a 9 gallon tank. I count it less as alt fuels will probably not have nearly as much power generation and of course, EPA MPG tend to be questionable on overall that it could be LESS than estimated based on conditions.

And yes, while I should be able to find something within 300 miles, or even 200 miles, the point is that the range extension is ontop of the electric miles, I shouldn't NEED to have a 9 gallon tank or 200+ miles to find another charging station. If I were to be getting 60 or 70 miles from a charge at the moment, I should also be able to recoup at least 15 to 30 miles getting a charge anywhere I choose, not having to find a very particular, possibly obscure place in order to do it.

Again, this is from a SINGLE CAR owner perspective. I am not going to go spend another $40 to get a commuter car, or a plugin-gas/electric where in the end, it ends up being just as much spending in GAS if I happen to have a situation that changes my commute from being what it is now to long distance driving and still not have a charging point other than home or having to go to an obscure place to maybe get some of the recoup.

There is currently no justification, even with the tax rebate, to do so unless I happen to have more burnable cash or ability to buy a second car that would encourage me to do so, and even then I would probably be better off with an electric bike as the 'fun' thing as well as the commuter vehicle.

 

I wouldn't hold your breath on that. I know that the yen has caused issues with japan-manufactured vehicles, but the Leaf in the US is $35k base price. If we could get it for $24k and then the $7500 tax credit on top of that, or $17,500 out the door, it would sell way better than it is now.

 

+1

I'm not sure what really successful is, some of those EV1 drivers think the leaf is already really successful. But if you mean selling 3% of the market like hybrids .... it's going to take some time. And really from a oil use point of view even hybrids are not successful with such a small market share. Agree with everyting else though. Batteries are primed for significant improvement by 2025, cafe standards will push phevs, as will gas prices. Let's hope by then PHEVs and BEVs are 20% of the new car market and not a measily few percentage points. If we had started incentives in 1997 instead of 2008 we would be much further along. Instead in 1997 the government started giving business tax breaks for buying humongo class SUVs, and many are still on the road.

No, I aknoledged your point, and find a phev that uses 80% less gas good enough for the next couple of decades you simply seem to disagree. That is fine, but acknowledge that I replied directly to your point.

Both of those cars have 3.3KW chargers, which means they can't take a fast charge. Build out the fast charge infrastructure and .... they will be exactly as useful as today.

First the cars are not $40K after the tax credits, second how many billons do you want to spend on infrastructure for cars that are 0.1% of the market, when its likely these cars won't even use it. If you regularly drive 200 miles a day, that is 60 K miles a year, you should not get a plug in. If you are more of a normal driver a EREV 35 will have you using no gas on most days. If the gas cruch happens, you might be able to avoid those 300 mile occasional trips.

Yep add the 35 mile er and you need to hit that first gas station on your long trip before 368. I'm assuming your not doing that in the city so you may get more like 40 mpg I may be biased by my geography. Those long trips are longer than 300 miles and its unlikely to get an infrastructure. Charging after work puts stress on the grid so it makes it a much higher investment, but if people here charge at night or in the morning there is plenty of texas grid capacity.

Should means you have high expectations. You should be able to use 80% less gas. For me that is a step in the right direction. Once the plug ins are here, and batteries can be charged safely faster, I can see a fast charging infrastructure. I don't see a reason why now.

Why would you use as much gas? You are considering the wrong car.

Hey its not at the price point you want. That just means you are not an initial adopter. I really don't see how a prius phv would be worse for you than your present car. Its just too expensive for you. If we get to WWIII the oil wars, I'd like it if we do develop the tech to not have to protect our oil

 

Here's the thing, you are NOT acknowledging the fact that even adopting early on a technology that the initial gains still does not show appeal when you still have an immature infrastructure. You are arguing there is no point to putting in an infrastructure now.

The problem with that thinking is the same reason there was a mad scramble to deal with the Y2K issue for older systems, the unwillingness to prepare or build up or replace aging systems that 'work just fine'. This also perpetuates not even TRYING to push for a new standard, because you do build the standard to make people adhere to it, or follow through until it is the last minute. Why do you think Tesla, Nissan and Chevy each have a different method of charging their vehicles, not to mention we still have other charging methods being pushed out. There is no standardization or a desire to put in an infrastructure to encourage a standard to help make the Electric Plugins be a worthwhile investment.

This is also the problem in IT... People want 'better performance', but can't have better performance without investing money into IT to improve the infrastructure. People think getting better desktops or getting a mac is the way to improve IT, this is a fallacy, you have to improve the back end infrastructure so that the front end, the desktops and the like, actually gain some of those benefits.

This is where I am coming from and again, this is where you are NOT acknowledging what I am saying, especially in your comment about considering the wrong car. There is another thread where a GM guy did a cost analysis on the Volt, the Prius and the Plugin Prius, where it shows that intially, short runs, the cost per mile is low, but when you go past a certain range, the cost become almost exactly or above that of a Prius. Again, that is under the presumption you don't get the convenience of recharging because of the one thing I keep harping about... THE LACK OF INFRASTRUCTURE.

The problem here, is you are focusing on the cost of the infrastructure being one large lump sum. You have been harping that and that is not my argument. However, it EXPLAINS the point of why jumping in on the any of these vehicles is a hard sell at this time. The benefits aren't going to be ANY BETTER than a Prius to really justify putting the upfront cost for any of the PHEVs. Don't forget, people buying a car are going in at a 5-6 year stretch, which also means unless they were willing to commit to that price tag, they will want as much as they can get from it for the amount they paid.

The PHEVs will benefit some but for others, such as myself, while we want them, the body form and the range for it does not make it seem effective until we can abuse the one thing that is suppose to be the pro for it, the least amount of fuel used. As I HARPED many times to you, without the ability to charge anywhere else but select, obscure areas or at home, and you run into the situation of unexpected/unintended side trips that would put you into going past the intended electric range, the higher initial cost going in and also the follow up cost of not saving the intended gas in question, you are basically in the same situation as if you got a normal prius, except you are paying for all of it upfront.

And that is where the problem is... People will focus on the upfront cost, ignoring the improvements in the future. Just as you have proven here by focusing on the upfront cost of putting in the infrastructure.

 

huh? Have you seen the posts by hill and dave and daniel. They seem to think they hage huge appeal.

Now what I am arguing is that those that want to fill up their plug in like a gas car are not going to be more likely to buy one if we have a huge charging structure where it takes a car like the volt an hour to add 10 miles and a prius phv will only get 8 miles in that time. No point in asking the government for a huge investment for that. There are much more productive uses for the money. One place is getting companies to put charges in at work.

Do you think there is a Y2K bug in these cars? The government is working to help with lithium R&D so that perhaps we will get batteries that are less expensive and charge faster. NO reason to build a huge infrastructure of chargers that only work on too digits. Sure we need some, but nothing like the level of gas stations. A quick charger costs about $50K and might be able to service 20 cars a day. Maybe the 500 we are building is fine and we don't need millions of them. I really don't think we need them.

All of them adhere to the SAE standard for 220VAC charging. Tesla and Nissan have different standards for quick charging. SAE is coming up with a quick charging standard for america that should be quicker than the japanese version of quick. Most people driving 300 miles use gas not quick chargers. You can do this in a prius phv, ford energi and volt.

Who said there was no investment?

phevs right now are more expensive. The price will drop as battery technology matures and volume increases. For most people the gas savings of a prius will never pay for the premium over a versa. The prius is nicer than a versa and uses less gas. A volt or leaf similarly loses to the versa but gives you the feel of electric and uses even less gas than a prius. I have 100 public chargers within 15 miles of where I live that can charge as fast as a volt can take, they are rarely used.

That is your problem not mine. For the cost of that charging infrastructure we could simply subsidize the prius phv and volt to be as cheap as a honda fit. That would jack up sales much more than the chargers. I understand you think we need the chargers. I think we need lower cost cars more than the chargers, and I don't think we have the stomach to have a bunch of empty chargers without political back lash. This is Chelsea Sexton's point of view also.

I don't think it is a surprise they are not selling like F150s, people are much more willing to spend the money for a f150. But that does not mean they are not selling well enough for improved second generation models. I get fed up when people think these need to sell in the millions in the first couple of years of adoption.

Well if you bought a volt or plug in prius you would use less gas, but they are not for you. What is the matter with that? They are not for everyone.

I am not sure that is the problem It is what it is. Until the technology improves prices will be higher. When flat screens came out not many bought them. Then analog brodcasts ende and prices dropped with technology. How many tube tvs get sold today? It takes time. I hate articles like this because they pretend the problem is tco and prices will remain high.

 

I give up... Not only are you not acknowledging what I am saying, you are not reading either.

 

OK, so say that we have chargers at every gas station using today's technology.

That would mean in a 30 minute charge you would drive a
prius phv 4 miles
volt 5 miles
leaf 50 miles
tesla S (85kwh) 100 miles

Would you buy one now? Would sales go up greatly? Or would other factors still keep sales near today's levels? IMHO it would shift more people to the leaf and sales would increase, but total plug in sales would still wait for other factors. All those chargers would not make a leaf as popular as the prius. Would those chargers make you buy a current plug in?

Better battery technology may allow for faster charging and lower costs and/or greater range. That is a bigger driving factor IMHO.

 

First off, Chargers in public locations, not just gas stations, but places like Shopping centers, malls, public parking or even private parking. Look at the map of Los Angeles and you will see that in that metropolitan sprawl of a city, the charger units are scattered in pockets of areas. Notice the small pockets of charging stations there. Now, lets say I was in Santa Barbara, and I need to go to Chinatown. Where is my closest recharging stations... Obviously NOT IN CHINATOWN. Or go to Little Tokyo in Los Angeles, to the Buddhist temple there, about 600 feet from the Parker Center. If I plan on spending several hours there, I can at least get a fair charge back, but have to park way over at Parker Center in order to recharge. This also ignores the possibility if I were to use the car to transport things I might be delivering, so you want me to cart over 600 feet something that could be delivered directly there.

That is an example of a situation that would be a pointed key. When I used to work for another company, I would drive from Santa Barbara, down to Costa Mesa, to a Mall because I had to do work in one of the stores. There is one there, which is great, but then, if I had to go down to Carlsbad for one of the other stores, oh look... Closes charging station in Carlsbad - At the airport and Costco... About 1k feet away, and again doing some work for a couple of hours.

Legoland there - None... Or how about on the way back, I make a stop in Oxnard, near the Rose Shopping Center. Oh wait... Can't charge there, got to go over to the AUTOCENTER that is 1.5k feet away, crossing a freeway.

The point is the opportunity charging places. Not just 'gas stations'. Where you know you are going to spend lengthy periods of time, not just 30 minutes but hours. That is where it would make the better opportunity to get the 'most' out of a PHEV.

Sales may see improvement more on the point that people go, "Oh, hey, I can get some more miles out of the car because I have more places to plug into at the city level. You increase the range of the vehicle as well, hence why the Leaf has that little "here are the charging stations" option, which works better with density as you can at least get more convenient locations to charge versus obscure, butt end places, waiting.

And with more locations to charge in more convenient locations, the less worries about having to park at long, obscure locations just to ensure a means of charging. The problem here is that the thinking being applied is short term, not long term. Long term, people will eventually park wherever possible, and the build up should start now. Will it make short term buys now, no. But in 2 months, in 6 months, in a year, if no real change in the infrastructure happens... Will there be a steady increase in plugin/battery vehicles? I doubt it because it is the same problem I likened earlier with Y2K.

Banks scrambled at the last moment to deal with the Y2K issue. The issue was known for at least 25 years. When systems were created, the design used the clock to use 1-1-1970 as the base line for date calculations, on the basis that this was only a TEMPORARY measure, and newer systems would replace the methodology. 27 years go by, using the same old systems and a 3 year mad scramble to change and update systems to avoid issues once 2000 happened, the issue being that the systems would go from 1999 to 1900, because the systems designed and used, at that time, was under the basis that they would be replaced and redone to account for the 99->00 rollover issue, which never got addressed until 3 years before and why it was such a big deal back then.

The same thing will happen here. Let's say we take the 'Homefront' game's scenario... Where the middle east has turmoil again, causing world wide oil exports to drop again, forcing all countries to internalize oil consumption use, and the US wants to force a cut in Gasoline to civilian consumption to maintain the country's defenses. There will be an expectation to have transportation make use of alternative means, but our next best alternative means is electrical. So now we are relegated to usage of Electrical Cars, a scan few diesel as diesel would be heavily used by military and train transports, even fewer alt fuel supports. We still haven't any infrastructure improvements for the electrical cars because there was 'no need' for it due to low sales and too many different electrical recharging standards to make it feasible. We are back to the same problem of making 'scrambling' to do things that should have been done to begin with.

Yes, I know this is all 'assumptions' and 'whacked theory' and has no real 'reason' to stand up on the need, but again, hindsight is always 20/20, foresight is about looking at all the possible probabilities and considering them. And to be honest, long term, you want the infrastructure to be in progress, not 'waiting' for the other shoe to drop.

 

Ok all good. So do you think the 10,000 chargers are not enough, or that the state will put them in the wrong place?
California's charging stations deal has industry in an uproar - San Jose Mercury News

It sounds like the leaf does not have enough range for you. It doesn't for many. I don't think I would trust one of the convenience chargers if I really needed it or be stranded. I also don't think people seeing empty chargers will drive many sales. Angry EV drivers waiting hours for a charger would even be worse. We do need happy plug in drivers telling people how much they like them.

IIRC correctly Y2k problems were with custom software that used only two digits for year to save space. Wouldn't putting in a ton of L2 chargers before a L3 standard was ready create the problem I am unsure if there ever will be a structure where there are chargers everywhere. There is a problem of taking up valuable parking here with dedicated spaces. But no question in a few select areas charger build up is happening.

Sure. Ok, but isn't developing the cars the fist step.That war scenario is completely solved with phevs. People just would be cut off from long trips when rationing happens. Getting some infrastructure up and running is important too. I would say the California ev mandate is overly optimistic, and is likely to be quite expensive or doomed to failure.

If we have the chargers and not the cars, then the chargers are worthless. If we have the cars and not the public chargers it goes most of the way. I'm optimistic that a good gen II phev can get traction without a big charging infrastructure, and pessimistic that a good structure with out good cars won't prompt adoption of the tech.

 

And you ignored what I mentioned before... It wasn't just 'custom' software... It was software many had used and continued to use for not only older branches, but also newer branches. This is also not just for branches but several corporations and various OS operations where again, it was on the assumption the hardware as well as software would deal with the problem later, but even later iterations ignored it because the basic gist was 'it works, don't need to change much.'

You also ignored my earlier argument on another thread with regards to the chargers. You are fixating on one type, there is the possibility to create a universal adaption to allow for for the current systems to be used or a universal power access point.

I also do not believe 10k chargers aren't enough, but it is a start, but it also means the infrastructure still needs to grow out, not just select areas but continue to grow out over time to public locations and by then it assuages the concern of 'is it there'? Also, having those charges available can also help encourage a standard, versus constantly chasing after several groups making their own standard first to get what is necessary, going from a universal adaption to a standard. As I stated before, which was ignored now twice, the necessity to make the visibility of charging easy to encourage buyers to get and encouraging car makers to have a charging standard not trying to chase after different makers and their idea of charging methods.

And lastly, I pointed out several times, which you STILL keep ignoring, is that there are people like me who DO want the plugin type cars, but again, certain aspects do not make it practical... But again, I am also in that group who can't own more than one car to do EXACTLY what you keep preaching which why I keep disagreeing with your argument. It's too pigeonholed.

 

I think they got to start somewhere and there are realistically many reasons why PHV or EV will not replace Camry at best selling car list anytime soon.

But why do they have to?

i think if sales reach 40k total this year, and 70k or so for the next, it will be super success overall. It will mean that many cities will be adding public charging stations, faster chargers will be developed, etc, etc.

Reason I often criticize GM is because I dont think they are serious enough. I honestly believe that Toyota is only company really serious about hybrids today (or at least has been in past 10 years, product range takes a while to develop). And hybrids are only legitimate path toward mass acceptance of PHEVs and ultimately EVs.

People expecting EVs/PHEVs to jump up to million sales/year are naive. This is industry where gradual improvement happens and where product cycle is 6 years on average. Consider that realistically next generation Prius can be "only" 10% more efficient at best (real life). A lot of improvement will come from less weight, not some magical improvement in technology.

But what we can hope for is less weight and platform designed to take more batteries.

Improvements in battery technology? Some big improvements are likely at least decade away (production wise).

IMHO I am being realistic... we have read about some incredibly high estimates from analysts about millions of EVs selling.

For that to happen:
1. Cost needs to go drastically down. Drastically.
2. Worldwide Governments need to subsidize costs of:
- charging stations everywhere
- development of new technologies
- buying new ev's.
- even cost of "fuel" (make it free?).

Because to sell millions of EVs, you have to make them financially viable to the public. And how in the world can that happen that fast without strong legislation?

And heck, what do we do when it happens? How are we going to feed this electricity demand? I dont see raft of new plants goin online and our electricity grids worldwide are in poor conditions.

 

NO you are just wrong on that. There is no way hardware can figure out years, its software. If it was on a standard package its a simple data migration issue. No disasters happened. Custom software, and many banks as well as other companies used custom software had to either fix the software or migrate their data to a standard package. I didn't ignore your point, you were just plain wrong. I worked for one of those enterprise software companies that made a lot of money off Y2K. I wasn't there at the time, but you get to understand all of thoese stories.

YOU are wrong again there too. If you put in chargers and increase the power you need to go back and modify the hardware.

SAE is just about complete with a standard for frenakenplug, which should be finalized in 2013. This should work with the current L2 as well as provide an L3 standard. Nissan has already said they will build an adapter to their chagedemo connector. I don't think there are many groups just disagreement within SAE. I'm sure when the standard is out Tesla will also create an adapter for their users. IMHO putting thousands of chagedemo and tesla L3 connectors out before this event is just couter productive. All but 200 of those 10K chargers follow the SAE L2 standard. Not much conflict other than Leaf owners wanting to get quick chargers built in the next 12 months.

Not ignoring just saying oh well, they don't live up to your expectations. I'm sure a ton of people would love a 300 mile range EV for $10K. For you a phev seems like the right vehicle but no one makes one you want yet. It sounds like you would like something like the prius with the range of a leaf and a quick charger for about $25K. You also want enough quick chargers to not be tempted to use gas. Maybe in 10 years for more money, but I don't think anyone is going to build your car in the next 5. I certainly never at all said you should get a bev, or have 2 cars. Hey I'ld like a tesla roadster for $50K but I know its not going to happen. How many miles do you drive on a typical day?

 

FFS... Are you EVEN READING what I am saying? I NEVER assumed the hardware can figure out years, however, it was the general consensus of BUSINESSES not bothering to do anything about it for YEARS when the system was developed on the point that it was to be replaced later. It never did because people didn't bother wanting to CHANGE anything but to continue the old way of handling it until the last 3 years. And as a person who 'worked' at a company that made money off of Y2K, you seem not to grasp the point made.

Notice in your two statements here... First, we shouldn't do this, then there will be a standard in 2013... You are complaining about going back to modify hardware when hardware can be replaced or retrofitted where as a full on installation later would take MORE time, MORE power than a replacement? Given you will STILL have run power conduits to the charging station locations when you want to put several of them, versus putting in a few now and retrofitting later or even, *gasp* put the forethought of future expansion and using that to retrofit for better hardware... I mean... oh my god, the madness of having prepared infrastructure that can be *gasp* upgraded for future use.

And here... Is where you MISSED the point again... The point made, harped, and painted on a barn side wall is that it isn't JUST me... There are several others who are in the SAME position as I am and not simply because of design, but practicality. It's going to be a hard sell NOW because of price and also practicality, it isn't going to work and the lack of a mature infrastructure isn't making the mark either.

On the long term theoretical consideration, 5 year buy in isn't worth it for people (Note, as I keep thumping this in front of you so many times you have ignored this point over and over again, I state people) like myself will not be able to justify such things for roughly the reasons above. The focus for most people will not just be a 'commuter' car but a vehicle that will fulfill various needs. With a WEAK or LACKING charging infrastructure, and purely little to no impetus to broaden it, the focus on the Plugins will be relatively minor and continue to be so or treated as 'yet another Prius hybrid' where we are still going to be dependent on gas. We will still have no real effort towards alt fuels either as again, lack of infrastructure or desire to do so because again, gas stations are more prevalent, standardized and easy to find in comparison with again, a better power density.

Again, hardly weens us off the very thing we want to move away from.

 

I heard you and said suck it up. If we had your perfect infrastructure you would still not buy one of the current generation of cars. There are enough that will to get to the next generation that I hope will be better. The overwhelming thing I hear from you is they are too expensive. Its going to take time to bring battery prices down. Its not a hard sell, its a limited market to the initial adopters. You don't want to compromise. Great no plugin for you today. Its only a hard sell because you want someone to sell it to you, and you don't really want it. Clear enough. 10,000 public chargers in California is more than enough for the people that actually want the cars with their limitations.

What you live in california and can get a prius phv for about $2K more than a normal prius after the state and federal incentives and get a hov sticker. Sounds like you don't really want one. Sure it doesn't give you enough range but its not expensive and isn't very compromised. You don't want the volt either. Fine. But this is generation 1. Suck it up you don't like the volt or the leaf or the energi or tesla S either You aren't an initial adopter That's fine I have a feeling if the tesla S was $20K you would be ok with it. Am I right. Do you get it?

And yet these initial adopters are doing all these electric miles. We should strive for progress, but much money has already been put in the program. Heaping a huge some at it now isn't going to speed things up all that much.

So what do you want? 10 million public chargers in the LA area. Would that solve the problem. I am quite sure you would still not buy a plug in. Why not let the charging infrastructure grow organically as people buy the cars.

 

I'm keeping out of this

 

Keiichi, I am sorry an EV and apparently PHEV don't work for your situation.
EVs aren't going to work for everyone. However, just because they won't work for you and people with your driving patterns, doesn't mean they don't work for a large number of people.

The majority of the early adopters, of BEVs, will be two car families. While that leaves out a good chunk of the market, it also includes a good sized chunk of the market.

Again, sorry it doesn't work for you or some others. I am happy though that they do work well for me and many others