PiP Lithium Battery Care Question

There are 2 timers, one for a "start" time and one for an "end" time. If you want to charge using the timer, you must press the timer button, otherwise the charge will start immediately. It seems like using the "end" timer would be beneficial to your situation.

So in a), before you exit the car you set the timer to "start" at 3am.

For b), don't set the timer and charge immediately, or set the "stop" timer so that the charging ends at whatever time that timer is set for, let's call it 2pm because you'll need to leave to pick up your son in the afternoon.

When you return home for c), set it to use the "start" timer again.

I doubt there will be much harm to the battery if you continue to charge your way. I'm sure Toyota was aware that people are going to charge when it is convenient to them and using a timer to delay the charge isn't always going to happen. I use the timer as much as I can but I'm not going to stress over the times when I want to charge immediately if I will need to use the car later.

Once you get used to setting the timer though, it just becomes habit and won't seem like such an inconvenience. You'll just do it and won't even think about it. Then when you're driving someone else's non-PHV, you'll discover that you're reaching for that button out of habit.

 

I'm going to *try* to start using the timer at night, but I'm not clear on the "2 timers" thing:

When you press the TIMER button it's going to use both times, right? The start time and the end time? I don't think there are really 2 timers, just an ON time and an OFF time.

But here's an idea: what if I were to set ON to 3am, and OFF to 1pm (which is when I actually leave the house)?

I assume that means that if I return at 7am from school and hit the timer button, it's going to immediately start charging, since i'm inside the 3am-1pm time window.

There's no way to tell the car to ignore the start time and just obey the END time, is there? And vice-versa?

My assumption is that, when you press the timer button, it looks at both start & end times, and charges whenever the clock is inside that window.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I do agree w/ you that it probably doesn't make as much difference as some might think. With laptops and cell phones, there are recommended charging methods, none of which I can regularly follow. The rule of thumb I've always heard for lithium batteries was to charge when your laptop gets to 20%; I would assume that, since the Prius is using a bunch of lithiums ganged together, that the same rule of thumb would apply if it were possible. Since recharging at 20% is unworkable, most of us will deplete completely and then recharge.

As to cycles, I seem to recall an Apple support person telling me that 380-400 cycles was typical on a Mac laptop; if that were applicable to the Prius lithium pack, that means I'd be buying another battery after only a year.

Bob

 

Anyone know what a replacement battery pack for this beast will cost?

I had a Gen II Prius whose battery failed after a year; I know, it's not supposed to happen, but it happened to me. Toyota replaced it (I seem to recall being told it was about $3200), but they had to ship a new battery to the dealership from Japan, so it took more than 6 weeks to get my car back.

So I'm wondering: is the lithium pack less expensive than the standard hybrid battery pack, and if so, how much less? Anyone? Bueller?

 

No one has any definitive pricing on the 4.4KW lithium pack yet...
there are all kinds of rumors on Leaf and Volt battery costs, some are in the $600/KW area. The PiP is probably higher than that currently, but no one really knows for sure. I would not be surprised if the replacement cost was in the $1,200-$1,500/KW area currently (with dealer markup / profit added in)

 

The manual isn't exactly clear ("A charging time can be assigned by setting the charging start time or finish time"), but the way I understood it from other posts, there are two options. Start at a designated time or stop at a designated time. If you press the timer button you can toggle between the start and stop times.

I'll do an experiment when I get home today (if I remember!). I set the start time to be 3pm (and I won't get home until 5), but the finish time is set for 7am. If I'm right, the car will start charging sometime before 7am. If you're right, it should immediately start charging.

 

Well, with the start time set at 3pm and the end time set at 7am, when I got home I hit the timer button until the end time was showing and plugged in. The car did not start to charge immediately as I expected. Checking the charge management app on my phone, I have the option to "charge now" and it indicates a "scheduled end time" of 7:10am.

So, I really do think you have the option of choosing a start time OR an end time rather than a window.

 

That is the way I understand it works. There are two independent timers: a "start at" timer, and an "end by" timer, and you activate one or the other. It is NOT a time range you want the charger to run in. Given all the confusion over this, I would think that this part of the manual really needs to be re-written. When people see a "start at" and "end by" time, why wouldn't people naturally interpret that as a time range?

 

I didn't believe you guys, but...

As a test, I just left it toggled to END TIME and then exited by holding down the button. Then I tapped the button to activate the timer; it didn't show the START time, it displayed the END time.

I'm surprised...

But why would I ever want to use the END time? Seems useless to me.

However, contrary to what someone said, I did this:

Pulled into garage
Turned car off
Tapped timer button, saw green flashing icon
Exited car, plugged in charger
Looked at console, saw that the icon was still flashing

[UPDATE: When I went to the car this morning, it had charged and was fully topped-off when I got in at 6:30am.]

So you DON'T have to plug the cable in before activating the timer.

 

One last question about these goofy timer settings:

If I were to use the END time for a timer, and I have it set to end at 12:30 pm, what time does the charger start? Does it calculate some sort of start time, or does it start immediately?

 

The two reasons for using an END timer that seem most common are:

1. Battery spends less time fully charged (good for battery life)

2. Charging warms the battery (and perhaps the interior a bit) so you might get better EV range on cold days if you charge right before driving.

 

The purpose of the timer is so you can charge the car during less expensive electrical rate times. I have an all electric Nissan Leaf and the car lets you set it to charge to only 80%. I have read about 100 responses to charging to 80% and full charging and I am not sure it makes a difference in the short run but will diminish your storage capabilities in the long run. When I say diminish I read you are looking at 1% a year give or take. so in 5 years you could be down to 95% charging capacity compared to when it was new. Many people don't keep a car for longer than 5 years and hopefully the Lithium Ion battery technology will be cheaper so in 5 years we can upgrade from 11 MPH's to 30+.

My wife and I are looking to get the PIP but we are not willing to pay sticker so we are waiting for full availability in July or August. We love our Leaf though. Range anxiety and all!

 

"If you look at the Nissan Leaf's DC fast charger, for example, that can put out 50KW, and a Leaf can be charged several times a day at that power level, without much affect on battery pack life. It does cause the pack to heat up, which is why the Leaf has a battery temperature gauge, but the built in BMS (Battery Management System) in the Leaf just lowers the charge current, if the pack gets too hot."

I just read through this topic because we are getting a PIP this week, and I have been driving a Leaf since the end of May. The Leaf has only minimal thermal management for the battery pack - not even cooling fans. Fast charging it in hot weather, or several times a day, is probably going to hasten battery capacity loss, and in hot climates this is already abundantly clear. Nissan just settled a class action lawsuit over this. Be grateful that the PIP has cooling fans and can use the cabin A/C to cool the pack!

Our car is going to be used primarily by my housemate, who is is giving up her beloved 2010 Prius II for a new leased PIP. I want to make charging as easy as possibly for both of us, and I'm trying to decide how much I should pamper the pack like I try to do with the Leaf. I don't see any clear answers here, but it was an interesting read, anyway. I'm sure you'll be reading more from me on our PIP.

​

 

Do you have two separate electrical hookups in the garage? Or would you be sharing, just using at different times?

 

One circuit that will be shared, along with the EVSE. That's assuming we actually get a PIP: the saleswoman who on Wednesday took our deposit with the assurance that we'd have a car by Monday is now saying she has no idea when one will come in. We just had to extend the old lease by another month...

 

"So you DON'T have to plug the cable in before activating the timer"

That's also how it works with the Leaf. Why make people go back into the car after plugging in?

 

I just tap the timer button some time on the last trip of the day, and after plugging it in, taking note that the LED on the charger plug comes on for a moment then turns off.