PIS 10kw conversion or new PIP?

Buy New!

 

save your money and wait for the Gen IV PIP. If Toyota listen to its owners, we'll have 30mi AER by then.

 

PiP owners seem to be reporting about 230wh/mile, giving you about 43miles range from a 10kwh usable system. For your longer trips you'd still be getting over 100MPG total with the 10kwh system, wheras the PiP would only be giving you about 60MPG.

Your typical use of 10-12 miles a day would be very light on a 10kwh system, so I would expect very good life from the cells.

 

Depending on if you like the car as much the volt sounds like a better option. You should be able to get 40 miles of ev on those slower rural trips and all of your shorter trips, along with all EV on the 50% of the driving on shorter trips. You get a full warranty on the battery, and it may cost less than the older prius conversion. How many miles do you drive a year? If it is short enough you may want to lease, then buy the newer sparklier car when it satisfies your needs more in the future. Is much of it in cold or hot weather when the EV range will be reduced.

I don't like the idea of the conversion given its relative cost. IMHO I'd go phv or volt.

 

I considered a conversion kit, PIP Volt leaf (and a few others).
Your speeds may allow you to stay in EV.. but the conversion is only EV upto 52 MPH.. the PiP is 62 which give you a bit more freedom to avoid the ICE start. I was also concerned about the long-term battery management and warrenty issues (which if I recall is just 3 years).
In the end I chose the Volt.. My daily commute is 35 or so miles and my longer trips are 1120-250.

A few questions that might impact the "most efficient" path vs cost.

When you do the longer trips, can you recharge at the half-way point?
If so then the volt will use much less fuel. If not the volt will save gas but the tradeoff to the PiP will be better.

If you look around on voltstat.net you might find someone with a similar driving schedule (you can see individusal driving histograms). With you you describe, assuming charging at just one end, for a Volt i would project an average of 110-130mpg if you do 3 days of 75 and 4 of 12. For a PiP, I would project 80MPG. For a conversion I would expect about the same as the PiP.

 

This proves my point in a previous thread, that the PIP is not that great.

My choice, which I made long ago, was to get a Hymotion kit installed in the 2006 Prius. That is a 5kw battery though. It would be spectacular to have the 10kw battery. Speaking from experience with my Hymotion kit, with a 10kw battery, there should be about 40 miles of electric before the pack is depleted. The problem is you're really not using the full potential on the 10 - 12 mile trips, you could just as easily have a 5kw kit. We don't really know if a single day though is either in the city or on a trip, or possibly both.

I would also be very cautious about where you purchase a conversion kit. There has been a great deal of controversy with the suppliers of these kits. I would contact Robb Protheroe at Plug-In Supply before purchasing anything anywhere. I think PriusChat member Kietyyyy might be worth contacting too.

I will say that the Hymotion kit has its own unique method of operation, such as not being able to go over 32 mph on complete electric. I think the Plug-In-Supply kit allows up to 52 mph, which would be a huge improvement. As far as being able to do 62 mph in a PIP, I don't see the huge advantage over 52, since at those speeds the pack is being depleted very quickly either way.

But by getting a used 2008 or 2009 Prius, you've already avoided the huge depreciation of a new car and you're ahead enough to benefit from the PHEV kit. Any Prius should have an extremely long lifespan if cared for, so there is less danger getting a used one than with a car that might fall apart when it is 10 years old.

 

The PiP allows FULL regeneration into its onboard 4.4KW pack, the add on kits, nope.
I have a 15 mile commute, on an expressway.. when its stop and go traffic, I make it the entire way in EV. I have driven the car about 550 miles so far, still have 4 pips on the fuel gauge, and the display is telling me I've used 5 gallons of gasoline and 55KW of electricity... I expect I will fill up this saturday, that wil be 2 weeks of ownership with over 600 miles, and it won't even be a full 9 gallon fillup. These are real world mumbers, my EV/HV percentage is about %50 %50 right now, as I charge at work and home, so most of my driving is in EV, except when I have to visit a client, for example. I would get the PiP [and I did ], I looked into the conversion kits, and even the owner of Plug in Supply told me to just get a full EV (Leaf was suggested), but that doesn't work for me as 1 vehicle solution.

 

The current Plug In Supply kit is advertised as having 72mph EV mode, and allows regen into the plugin pack.

 

could be, but when the owner of the company suggest buying something else, perhaps that should be telling you something.

I imagine the PHEV conversion companies will be focusing on extending the range of Leafs, Volts, and Plug in Priu at this point, as not many are going to be willing to spend money on upgrading older 2004-2009 Gen II Priu

 

This Robb Protheroe?

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-p.../105157-plug-in-supply-diy-5.html#post1531845

No personal experience.. just passing along what I would consider pertinent information if considering a PIS kit.

 

If you already had a 2008 Prius, it would probably make more sense to add the plugin kit to the car. But since you have to go out and buy a Prius anyways, to me it makes a lot more sense to just simply get a PiP (if available in your area). There is significant improvement in technology and performance between the Gen II and Gen III Prii. You'll be getting a much better warranty as well, especially on the new battery technology in the PiP.

 

YES, that Robb Protheroe!! Which is amazing to hear, definitely pertinent information, and does create a definite change of opinion to my previous post.

It also sounds absurd that he would threaten to sue a person for posting on PriusChat. I always did want to read more about the court case he was involved in, but never was able to get the records either from Robb himself or the court there in California.

Maybe none of these guys can put out a decent kit and stand behind it, leaving only the PIP as the only Toyota choice. I don't know definitely, but I don't think Hymotion is selling any kits anymore either.

 

Hymotion kits are for Gen II only. Many of us are interested in converting our Gen III to PHV.

 

Agree completely!

If the OP has the money and the price is nearly the same, the PiP is a no brainer. Discussion and consideration of a converted 08 should end right now. I wouldn't even muck w/the aftermarket conversion. A new PiP has a warranty on the car, powertrain and a much longer one the battery.

A used converted 08 has no 3 year/36K basic warranty left, has little of its 5 year/60K mile powertrain warranty left and who knows about the warranty on the HV battery pack and hybrid components due to modifications?

And yep, there are a lot of new features, toys and improvements on the Gen 3 Prius over the Gen 2. See posts by me, Tideland and evpv at http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii-2010-prius-main-forum/88583-prius-versions.html#post1242903 just for the Gen 3 improvements.

 

The front air dam is the 3.5" clearance there is an optional shorter air dam that pushes it to 4.9" and if you drive with no air dam its more than 6. It reduces EV range by 1-2 miles to forgo the air dam.
My Volt's first Colorado Snowstorm. Not too bad. [Archive] - GM-Volt: Chevy Volt Forum


Reliability can only be measured in time, but so far so it good

:focus:

I posted before the 52mph limit.. I don't know if that is from a PIS kit, but it is the limit in whatever is in the Boulder Hybrid Conversion installed 10kw Package.