The challenge of making people buy EV's

Me: No. it's not consumer education, not primarily. It's price. These cars are functionally inferior to a gas car and cost many, many thousands of dollars more. You cannot educate that reality away.

I think personally it's very obvious that EV technology is too immature to be taken seriously by consumers at this point. It's getting there. Slowly.

 

I disagree. To me, it is obvious that the driving experience of an EV is by far superior to that of a gas burner. Forget environmental or national/fiscal security reasons, it is just a superior driving experience. As long as the range meets your needs.

I do agree that EVs will become even more obvious of a choice as prices come down.

 

Innovation, mass market, economies of scale. It was the same thing with computers and cellular phones. EVs right now are somewhat akin to personal computers and cell phones from the late 80s. It is more that the options are few, expensive, and of limited utility. The crucial pieces of innovation, being low cost, the ability to do an 80% charge in 5 minutes, and copious charging stations, are right now the missing links. At some point, it will turn into a "keeping up with the Joneses" thing -- mass market -- as friends and neighbors listen to some nerdy tree hugger friend describe driving from coast to coast in his EV. Around the same time, the economies of scale on the battery side, with production volumes 100-1000 times what they are now, will push costs down even further.

 

The challenge of making electric vehicles consumers want to buy

Once they have THAT headline, they have a hope of achieving their goals

 

Even if the range meets your needs, it's still very expensive, and trust me when I say the only EV with a driving experience even anywhere close to that of a similarly priced gas-powered car is the Tesla Roadster, because it's darn fast. Pick any other EV you want and I can identify a car for the same price that manhandles it for driving experience, with gobs more power and comfort.

Let's give the Leaf, for example, its $7500 credit and call it a $30k car. Which car do you think it drives more like, the sub $20k Versa or the $30k Maxima with 290 horsepower?

They were crazy expensive, but you did get something for your bill. Prior to the PC, well you didn't have one. And with a cell phone you were able to make calls anywhere. What do you get with an EV? You pay many thousands of dollars more and you suffer shortened range; you're asking people to pay more to get less. Any money saved on gas is eclipsed by higher purchase price. And all things equal an EV may drive nicer than a gas engine, but all things aren't equal because the EV is costing you the same as an entry luxury car.

I think it's highly dismissive to say lack of education is the reason people don't buy EVs. It's akin to saying "our product is just fine, the reason it's not selling more is that people are ignorant.". Well, let's say that's partly true. If you need endless marketing and reeducation that in itself demonstrates a weakness in the product.

But as far as I'm concerned telling a person that they simply don't know any better when they shy away from spending $30k out of pocket for an econobox with a 73 mile range is lunacy.

 

Way back in the day, cell phones didn't work in many places and quality was poor. Why, you might go more than 20 miles from home and be outside of the coverage area. You couldn't leave the city limits and expect it to work.

 

So you're saying your range was pretty bad and you couldn't really leave the city. I think your analogy to EV is pretty darn good after all

 

Here's the deal right now with the current state of technology...IMHO

EVs are not long range cars right now. We should stop thinking that they are. Yes, we should keep trying to improve them, but we should stop imposing ICE "attributes" on them like big powerful engines for towing, long range, seating seven passengers, etc.

EVs, with all their limitations, are actually better than ICEs for certain things, like trolling around the city, or suburban mall parking lots, or bringing the groceries home...and maybe even for polluting less or using less foreign oil. So, they are worse if you want to tow a boat, or pack the family in the car...Get over it.

So, I don't understand the mentality of car makers and the public trying to make a "bigger-better-more like an ICE car" thing out of an EV of the present. If you make an EV just as big, just as powerful, you've basically created the equivalent of a gas guzzling SUV.

 

There is nothing wrong with a gas-guzzling SUV if you have a NEED for one. They do serve a real and practical purpose. The problem only comes when people drive these large vehicles when their size and power isn't required. I have a 1-ton diesel truck that I can't do without, but it normally sits in the garage for weeks at a time between uses.

So, IMO, EV's need to get a LOT more affordable before they can make much of an impact. EV's pretty much require owners to have at least one other vehicle for longer trips or for hauling/towing purposes. Many people can't afford two vehicles, so the SUV/Truck wins out. You can buy hundreds of thousands of miles worth of fuel for the price of an EV.

 

Even when batteries are improved and EVs are long range, they will still generate particulate matter (tires rolling along pavement) and road noise. We need greater emphasis on walking, bicycles, light & high speed rail. EVs will recharge from standard wall plugs and photovoltaics.

 

For a small minority, this may be possible, but the average commute in miles for Americans is 16 miles and 26 minutes for one way. That's 32 miles and 52 minutes for a round trip every day. And that is just the average! It's safe to assume that the high metropolitan areas such as Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston and New York will have longer commutes than the average.

 

This will never change anything for most people, who will continue to live in suburbs, like me, unless I have to. I've biked to work in the past and it's not bad, but it makes no significant difference on the number of miles I drive because it's close; if it were far I'd have to drive anyway and I still drive for everything else. Also it doesn't work in inclement weather, or carrying anything, nor if I'm suffering an injury that precludes it.

You will drag me kicking and screaming at gunpoint before I ever make public transportation a regular part of my day to day life. Most hate it as much as I do, as well. There is no future for North America without cars as important as they are today unless that future is after a zombie apocalypse and most of us are undead.

 

and have not had their costs as well externalized...

 

Ok, first thing to do is remove LA from the country, its commutes are too long It also has too many cars. Those other cities have a base of public transportation, just make it better. Next we need the biking plans and roadways. 16 miles, that should take me about an hour each way, then I don't need to run after work. I'll just need a shower there. 16 miles would be a big commute for me.


Or really phevs, bevs, hv, and ices. The biggest problem with these cars is the cost and lack of choice today. If the price of gasoline rises and batteries fall, people will move to them.

 

Think about the economic dynamics of EV purchases. Here are the following motivations:

1. The environment, as in not wanting to cause pollution by burning gas.
2. Reduce the strategic importance of the Middle East, the transfer of wealth to despotic regimes, and put the chinga to Hugo Chavez.
3. The cost of gas itself, regardless of who profits.
4. Performance and technology (thinking specifically Tesla here)

Probably there are more reasons.

When the intangible benefits of 1 or more of the benefits on the above list outweighs the cost (less tax incentives and perks), inconvenience, and risk inherent in early adoption, then that person will purchase an EV. There are MANY factors which will increase the EV purchase rate. "Education" might increase an individuals awareness of their preferences in the above list, but it would be second order for sure. Given that people have been DIYing EVs for decades, it is clear that the adoption rate will only increase over time as changes to the factors create stronger preferences. The only things that might slow down adoption are if the purchase price remains high (doubtful), if the global recession deepens, or if the price of gas plummets. All other factors seem to be moving in the direction that will only increase demand.

 

But that's part of my point...if you use your EV to the level that technology allows right now, that is for 75 miles per day or less, which 80 percent of Americans do, you don't need a charging infrastructure other than your home. Remember...an EV is a short range car. You need another car for the longer trips...at least that's the way I see it.

 

I agree with you 100% up until your last two sentences. I also have a truck in addition to my Prius, and try to drive each one appropriately. I live in a large city, and the EV or Prius would win out almost every time for parking, manuverability, and the economics of mpg. I don't agree with the "hundreds of thousands of miles worth of fuel" difference.

If you need a simple commuter/errands car in a city area, you can buy a Mitsubishi i for $30k, take off $7500 for federal tax credit and you have an EV for most of your needs for $22.5k. Now before you make fun of the i for its size and looks, remember to me, in NYC, it would be a pleasure to drive and park.

 

I've been riding a new mountain type bike to our local shopping centers. The challenge is in locking it up. The worry is bike theft. ..

Some shopping fronts have NO bike rack whatsoever. Pathetic.

But, cars are secure. You just paint parking space lines on the ground, that's it. Park hundreds of cars.

Bikes each need those 'up/down metal tubing, buried in concrete' bike racks for serious lock up. That costs businesses / propety owners money. And you do need serious lockup for a decent bike. I use 2 u-locks (rear tire/seatstay, front tire/fork bridge) and maybe a third cable through the saddle. Still, that's nothing a battery operated angle grinder can't handle.

Plus bicycles don't carry nearly as much stuff purchased as cars or land barges do.

Still, I ride because I like to ride. Even though cars are everywhere. Keeps me alert though.