EPA MPG without Hybrid Components?

Yes. The SGII will show horsepower. Cruising along at a sustained speed of 55mph only requires about 15-19hp.

I feel the same about HP. Too many years of gaming I guess.

 

In The Feb 2012 Road&Track, Dennis Simantis quotes Dick DuMont and Automotive News

The Prius has not resorted to cylinder deactivation, direct injection or turbocharging yet (turbos will not do well with Start/Stop unless the oil pump is electric)

 

Yep, the OP's question has come up numerous times and I agree, the Matrix is probably the closest comaprison.

Besides the EPA mileage, CR at Best & worst fuel economy rated the 1.8L Matrix at 29 mpg overall vs. 44 for the Prius liftback.

 

I remember reading that in a Honda Civic Hybrid, if the battery failed, the highway MPG would not be affected very much.

 

What engine and what type of transmission? You have to specify because none of the Prius parts will work in a non-hybrid configuration.

Tom

 

Thanks, that's an interesting list:
Tech Tidbits by Dennis Simanaitis for February 2012 on RoadandTrack.com
A glaring omission:
Nut holding the steering wheel 20-50%
Only partly kidding here. Technology like the HSI display can enable and encourage drivers to realize some or all of this gain, so it IS a tech issue.

And many other technologies such as aero, Fiat's Multi-Air, Mazda iStop, EV capability, LRR tires, LRR wheel bearings, etc. aren't included in the list.

Of course these technologies can't simply be stacked, as you point out. Incidentally, applying autostop to modern turbo diesels might cause the same problems with turbo lubrication that you pointed out (the VW diesel is a turbo).

And the usefulness of the others depends on conditions: start-stop is of more value in stop-and-go situations than on the highway, and diesel's efficiency shines more on the highway than in town. DSG vs AT doesn't mention CVT or MT (DSG may not support MPG techniques that an MT does, such as bump start, coasting in neutral engine off, skipping gears, etc).

Not only that, incorporating some technologies may force you to add others. EV capability means you need electric AC, EPS, electric brake boost, electric trans lubrication, electric coolant pump, etc.

"Efficiency" is a slippery concept. "Performance" types often come from the viewpoint that getting 300hp from 1800cc is "efficient" and somehow means that the same engine will burn less fuel to produce the 20-30hp needed for cruise than a less powerful engine would. This just isn't true. Hybrids beat both by designing a weaker powerplant that produces the power needed for cruise as efficiently as possible, and then drawing additional power when needed from an electric system. And by shutting down the ICE entirely when it would be running inefficiently at very very low power outputs and instead running electrically.

The problem is that the power needed for "cruise" depends on the speed and conditions of cruise. Cruising at 80mph with the AC on full blast takes a lot more power than 50mph AC off. As many Prius drivers have discovered, a vehicle that is "efficient" at lower speeds may be less so at higher ones. From the posts here it seems as though the Prius was designed for efficiency up to 60-65mph.

The numbers given in the list are really just rough guesses because they depend so heavily on (a) how well those technologies are implemented (a 6-speed won't improve efficiency over a 5-speed if the ratios are wrong) and (b) how well the "efficiency envelope" of the resulting vehicle matches the various conditions under which it is used.

I think the key to the success of the Prius is how its various technologies have been packaged to work together: stop-start, VVT, Atkinson, power split trans, aero, EV capability, HSI display.

I don't see the point of cylinder deactivation unless the ICE must be kept spinning as in the Honda IMA systems. Under low power conditions, one probably gains more by shutting off the ICE entirely and relying on EV (which the IMA can't do). DI: the main plus to me is the ability to use iStop and restart without using electricity. And turbo seems mainly suited to add power above cruise levels, which the EV boost handles well at present.

The Prius might gain highway efficiency if it were possible to cruise EV at say 65mph and cycle the ICE on and off as needed, perhaps with a (mild!!) P&G feature built into the cruise control. I think the Hyundai or Kia hybrids do this at present.

Of course all this tech is nice but cost must be factored in - got to be at a reasonable price point, which is another area the Prius handles well.

 

Folks here keep wondering why we don't wave, we are busy watching the gauges.

If I drive into town from the south east, (all my customers are North to West, so this is rare) I am cruising at 25 MPH for 3 miles, no lights, so EV never lasts long enough, but a 2 cylinder Prius would be plenty of HP to cruise at 25 MPH.

In my Gen 2 at least, it is like the Cruise Control guy never spoke with the Prius team, he slapped on the same rules as the Corolla used and then went home.
I want the 'Pull back to Coast' logic to do a no arrows glide, I want the 'Lift up to Resume' logic to accelerate as hard as uses no battery power, all engine. Then P&G would be a piece of cake, but under your control. (I am less willing to have it P&G on it's own while just cruising) Perhaps Gen 4 will have the Prius Team fire the CC guy, and get someone who cares.

I like Direct Injection for Atkinson reasons, currently the Air/Fuel mixture is spit back into the intake tract while running, this makes the throttle plate dirtier than it wants to be. A 'shorty' intake manifold (mistakenly called a Cold Air manifold) may well spit the mixture all the way back into the air under the hood, raising 'codes' about bad A/F ratios.

A supercharger only makes sense if the ICE is made smaller. (I would be interested in a HV Motor, electrically powered supercharger, but that is a personal problem. 12 volt electric superchargers are always a scam
Understand Why Electric Superchargers Are Scams
)