1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

HID Issue Comes Back!

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by jk823, Jun 9, 2012.

  1. jk823

    jk823 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    98
    5
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    So last night my right HID headlamp on the 2009 Prius was flickering and then went out. I posted about it here and brought it into the dealership this morning and they replaced the headlamp per the settlement. I drove home and no problem, the headlight worked fine.

    BUT now it went out again! I didn't notice any flickering this time, but the light is OUT now. Theoretically it's a brand new bulb. What the heck could be happening?
     
  2. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,855
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Since you didn't do the work yourself there is no way to know. If the mechanic touched the bulb in any way with his skin, his oils could have easily overheated the bulb. If it was roughhoused, same deal. If it was an old bulb, who knows.

    Easiest is to swap the bulbs from the "good" side to the "bad" side. If the problem follows the bulb, it is the bulb. If the problem follows the side, it is the ballast. It takes 5 minutes to pop off the bumper and get your hands in there.
     
  3. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    12,544
    2,123
    1
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Concur w/what 2k1toaster says, but personally, if under warranty, I'd take it back to the dealer.

    For someone who's never done it before, it takes a lot longer than 5 minutes to pop up the bumper cover and remove the headlamp assembly, not including time studying videos or diagrams.
     
  4. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,479
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    1. Infant mortality with the new part; or
    2. The electronics that provide power to the bulb need to be replaced.

    I agree that a swap of bulbs is a way to determine the problem; let the dealer tech do that.
     
  5. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,855
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Anything that you don't physically do yourself leaves any future problem indeterminate because you don't actually know what was done. If driving back and forth to a dealer and relying on a tech monkey has greater value to you then 5-minutes if you know what you are doing, 30 minutes tops if you only know what a screw driver is, then so be it.
     
  6. jk823

    jk823 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    98
    5
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I swapped the bulbs and it's not a bulb issue. So I went to the dealer and was told it would be $400 and a full day to fix the wiring issue. Here's what they said:

    "Found burnt terminal #1 connector H5 and head lamp cover, harness.
    Need remove right head lamp assy to
    *Replace rear head lamp cover
    *Wire Harness between cover and ECU (Cover part # 811435-47100, cord part # 81165-21150)
    *Replace connector H5 (Part 90980-11255)
    *Repair Terminal #1 at connector H5"

    $400 seemed high so I went to a neighborhood mechanic who said he could fix it in half a day for no more than $90 or $95. The guy at the dealership seemed to warn against someone not from Toyota doing this. If they damage wiring it could be $3000+ to fix, he said. He said for a Prius you shouldn't get it fixed at a local shop -- the place that quoted me $90 has been recommended by friends, has high reviews online and is recommended on Car Talk's Mechanic Files so they seem legit.

    Am I crazy to go to the local shop to have this taken care of?
     
  7. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,855
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Burnt terminal connector means the connector was not properly connected to the bulb at some point during the initial plasma stage. The high voltages coming out of the ballast are such that if you leave the ballast line open, and apply power, it will arc and melt the connector.

    Replacing the rear headlamp cover? Did you lose the rubbery black thing that goes over the wires and plugs the hole? If so, the issue could be water damage. These aren't optional parts. :)

    I doubt you need a new wiring harness. This seems silly. Unless the insulation is actually melted or the terminals corroded or some other form of metal migration, it seems unnecessary. A picture of this terminal connection would help.

    Why you would replace the wiring harness and the connector and still repair the terminal that is obviously part of one or the other of those part numbers, is insane.

    Your tech monkey is clueless. He is basically saying power isn't getting to the ballast. So whip out your multimeter or voltmeter and measure the power at the ballast connector. With the headlights on (even with the bulb not lit) you should get a 12v-14v potential between the two terminals (polarity depending on how you measure). If power is getting there, then it is the ballast or the bulb.

    You swapped bulbs so the bad-side bulb worked with the good-side ballast and the good-side bulb did not work in the bad-side bulb ballast correct? You did not just swap one bulb and leave the bad one disconnected did you? That is a major problem and would explain the arcing, melted wires, and burnt connector the tech is reporting.

    So the magic 8-ball of Prius diagnostics says it is the 12v battery... Just kidding, it is the ballast. :D

    You can swap the ballast, it is easy to do but more difficult then the bulb. It is under the headlight assembly. So you will need to undo the 3 bolts that hold the headlight assembly in place (2 are visible and easily accessible, the other is only accessible with the bumper "down" (it doesn't have to be removed, just pulled down and out of the way). Then unscrew the box cover under the assembly and move the two units. If the problem follows the ballast it is definitely the ballast. If the good ballast fails to work on the bad side, then your tech might be correct in bad wiring, or potentially a bad relay, connection or something like that.

    All of this can be done in probably an hour at a lazy pace including time for finding your tools, and staring at the car wondering what the heck you are supposed to do next.

    The ballast can be ordered online for between $40 and $200 depending on used and unknown condition, or a working pull, or new from an online dealer. It is a plug-n-play type installation which you will be familiar with if you swap the ballasts now.

    If you decide to let the monkey fix it, get it in writing that this will fix the problem. Because it sounds like hogwash.
     
  8. jk823

    jk823 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    98
    5
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I still have a rear headlamp cover. I don't know what that's all about.

    The Toyota tech showed me the two parts that had damage. One was a white connector that looked like the female end of a plug. He pointed out that one of the holes in it looked different from the other. It was a SLIGHT difference -- it almost looked bigger maybe? But in all honesty I didn't know what I was looking at. He said that this plug connected to more wiring and he'd just cut it off and solder on a new one. (This is where if someone did it wrong and you had to replace the whole wire it would cost $3K)

    Then he showed me a black plug (it was the male end of a plug). It had two metal pieces and one of them clearly had some burning/melting at the base of it.

    So that's what I think happened. Should I try and take photos of this to show?
     
  9. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,855
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Photos would be good. If there is a contact and the ballast was good (i.e. what the tech wants to do), you would at least see the bulb try to ignite and fail (rapid flickering for 1-2 seconds at a low level)
     
  10. jk823

    jk823 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    98
    5
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I'll try and get a photo later, but I think they replaced the ballast and bulb yesterday as part of that settlement?
     
  11. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,855
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    No. The settlement is again Toyota bowing to US pressures on a non-problem that nobody else would even complain about.

    The "HID assembly" used to be the entire headlamp. So the headlamp itself, the bulb, and the ballast. This was many hundreds of dollars in parts, and would be over $1000USD to replace at a dealership. If the bulb burned out, they would replace everything.

    All they've done now is educate the monkeys that there are bulbs in there and you can replace just the bulb. So all they did was replace the bulb. With what, who knows. The ballasts rarely ever fail. Usually they only fail if they are left to arc or require multiple restarts to fire a bulb.