2013 Volt: 98MPGe, 38miles EV range

I'll stop complaining about the past if you do

 

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What you are really talking about is low power for climbing hills or going fast once the batteries get low. GM's work around for the rare colorado highway was mountain mode. A lower power range extender's biggest problems are regulatory. CARB did talk about BEVx, but that doesn't make much sense. They would lower the regulations if the range extender was two small to be usefull on trips. Once you add the range extender you need to add the pollution control devices, a 10 year battery warranty, and ways to make sure the ice works if it isn't needed for long periods of time. Adding the 1.4L ice was probably about the least expensive gm could do to comply and think they could get pollution down to CARB's at-pzev. Once you are paying all those costs, adding a cylinder doesn't make much of a difference on purchase price. That audi a1 was designed for europe, and is allowed to have much less expensive pollution control The aptera is interesting since it could just drop a motorcycle engine in as range extender with its much less expensive pollution control. Being only 3 wheeled, it gets HOV naturally and only has to follow motorcycle safety and pollution control. They are able to pick and choose which rules make sense and which do not.​

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The trailer range extender gets rid of all those pesky regulations Wouldn't it be nice if they made a rule like if the EREV gets more than X miles AER, they only have to comply with a lower set of regulations for the ice

 

In my opinion, the best IC engine for the Volt would be VolksWagen's 1.2 TSI.It's being used in VW Polo, Golf, Touran, Jetta in Skoda Octavia, Fabia and so on. It consumes very little, but is still powerfull - 105HP officialy, 122HP unofficialy.

 

That's anouther very good choice. I picked the ecoboost because it more fit what was in the volt concept, which was 1L 3cyl.
Two years ago they were already talking about possible engines for the second generation
Second Generation Chevrolet Volt May Use Two-Cylinder or Rotary Range Extender

I'm sure talk about a rotary or diesel has died by now. 2 cylinder is interesting as it would cut down cost, size, and weight, but with a goal to be able to climb pikes peak at full speed, I don't think it would make it. The other inespensive possiblity is a lotus style range extender.
Green Car Congress: Lotus to Introduce Range Extender Engine
This would cost less the current ice, but be less efficient.

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I'm sure that is just the cells in the pack and not other hardware. IMHO they will go for 40 miles aer on epa, then use the cost savings, which means that pack will still be expensive in the next generation. My best guess is around $8000 in 2015, but then decreasing each year.​

 

So regardless of what I say or do going forward, it doesn't matter?

Where's the suggestion?

 

I thought we weren't suppose to do comparisons anymore.

What was the point of that?

 

What's next? We need to talk that's what! I will PM you my contact info and we can set up a time to talk. Or we can start here if you like. I will answer any question you want and give you the sort of "inside" of what myself and some other Volt owners have been busy with. Many of which is doing the normal amount of complaining about overlooked features and what we also see as a ridiculous advertising campaign that confuses people among other things. I would love to give you newer better things to write on the subject of all EVs and hybrids. There has been a lot of back door discussions and stuff mostly on facebook among groups and much in person. I am really sorry, you do have a point. I was always active on Priuschat and sort of bowed out when I got my Volt. In this instance probably the worst thing I could have done. I am sorry I haven't made myself available to help.

I would seriously say, perhaps a roadtrip would be in order someday. I know of someone else who would LOVE to see the PHV Prius and we could do some direct comparisons for our websites, and see what each other's cars are all about. I am certain you have checked it out, but I haven't seen a PHV Prius yet, so why not. Of course, I have driven the pre-production model at greendriveexpo, and plan to be there again this year.

 

I have to say, after sitting here with Brad and listening to him talk about the conversation he was having with John really makes me excited. I wasn't a firm believer in the Volt either, but he dragged me along with him to buy it after he sold his 2010 Prius.

I wanted to take this chance to say that there are two different worlds going on here. There is the world of Prius, and the world of Volt. Even though many Volt owners were Prius owners, the worlds have grown very far apart. I am a Prius driver who is always constantly exposed to the Volt. I can add my two cents as well for anyone wanting to know what "this Prius kid" thinks about the Volt. It has it's ups and downs, but I found that the Volt isn't a terrible car.

So all I can say is John, we look forward to hearing from you and possibly taking a road trip sometime down the road so you can drive our Volt to your work place one day and feel it out, and so we can maybe get a feel for the Prius PHV also.

 

I see this as a turning point. Things look quite different afterward, but are very uncertain right up until the moment they actually happen. That past is well documented, capturing the feelings & beliefs well enough to provide a basis to look forward with. Of course, we'll still remember all times EV range and MPG were brought up despite such blatantly obvious battery-capacity differences. But clarity allows us to finally to a step beyond the discord.

And now that there is an effort taking place to move on, suggestions about what to do next should be the focus.

Not stating goals has always been a major source of contention, so stating them now is my suggestion.

It's really hard to argue particulars when it's clear that purposes aren't the same.

 

That is an excellent suggestion. You guys should all try it out for a week or so (changing the car). I had the chance to drive DEMO PiP for 2 weeks and Ampera for 1.5 weeks so I can make a direct comparison what will best fit my needs.
Of course, Europe PiP having the EV cap at 51mph doesn't help the PiP score good ;-)

 

I hate it that EV range and MPG were brought up on a "which is better" stance. Really neither is better. They are totally different cars with different purposes made for different people with different families from different walks of life. (Did I say differently enough? haha) Any way there is something to be said with going the way of tried and true reliable, and familiar. It's also not such a gamble financially as the increase in price for the PHV package isn't that bad, and yet if your commute is short enough or in some cases long enough (better efficiency on gas) then you might have a higher savings or benefit with the PHV Prius. I on the other hand needed that 30-50 mile range to be able to properly utilize EV.

Andii, I am so jealous. A few weeks ago I saw an Ampera on the interstate in Ohio. I flipped. IT is an amazing car, aesthetically way better than the Volt (IMO.) Luckily in the USA I think the EV speed of the PiP is much better. I know I had an Enginer kit in my 2010 and I seriously think they already had some serious capability, perhaps each one is sort of designed for PHV operation in some manner. I think since the inverter on the Enginer pack output a higher Voltage, and specifically when the stock pack was also full I could drive EV at speeds up to 61-62mph. I was actually considering a salvage Prius from a friend with a really good plugin kit. The Enginer kit caused me a lot of reliability issues. They may be better now, but I had one of the earlier ones. I would have been able to drive up to 74mph in that conversion, though with slow acceleration. I would have made do. I feel blessed to have come across the Volt at the right time.

Anyways I cannot wait to start bridging the gap here. I wish some of my Prius friends who I believe are still active on here would have clued me in that all of this was going on. I feel like I left to go overseas to school, and came home to find the family all split up and mad/not talking to each other!

 

If you don't mind our language, you can check out the review (and a video) we did with our country's most advanced journalists:



Delavnice varčne, varne in električne vožnje v Slovenj Gradcu - Planet Siol.net



The Ampera part starts at 3:45.

A foto from the end of the event (I'm driving ):


However, Ampera is not perfect either. Sure, the front bumper looks great, but has a serious flaw. On the bumper's sides, it's painted right to the bottom of the bumper. Since the bumper is very low, you can easily scratch the paint off the bottom of the bumper. Volt has this implemented much better.
The second thing I don't like about the Ampera is it's price, which is 2500 - 4000 EUR more expensive than the EU Volt with the same equipment.

 

I actually had my lower panels, and front grill insert/bottom grill painted glossy black. I'm babying it and at the price I paid to get it done, I will gladly pay to do it again in 3-5 years. Looks great. I will check out the video! Thanks

Oh my, I can speak German but sure can't understand Slovenian. lol

 

So, what about some positive reinforcement about what I did do to dampen the rhetoric?

Each and every post on the forums included my real-world PHV data. Some of the antagonists laughed & mocked that, but it did prevent many debates from ever starting.

Don't overlook that.

 

Volt doesn't provide full power in electric mode above the speed of 35mph. It can reach full power only in the HV (gas+electric) mode. That alone should disqualify Volt as EREV.

Here is MT graph that I am sure you've seen before:



I agree the difference in the design choices and consequences. Volt is superior in not starting the gas engine. Prius PHV is superior in the overall efficiency and emission.

8.8kWh per gallon is a lot of untapped energy in 37 MPG vs. 50 MPG PHV.

 

But you assume a certain amount of usage of the ICE. I have friends who are approaching 9,000 miles and they have burnt 1 gallon of gas!

I don't agree about the full power. They may have restricted a certain amount of power at many speeds, because it isn't necessary but it's ability to accelerate is there in it's entirety with no gas engine running. I think that being in EREV mode actually provides more than the maximum rated horsepower. Now, I mean however it is they determine it's horsepower, not the horsepower at the wheels. However, I don't find the graph unfair in the sense that it does show the PiP too, so it's all a level playing field. I just find it funny to nit-pick on that subject and say that it should disqualify it as an EREV. I seem to get a faster acceleration when my battery is charged, and I am not in range-extended mode. If that's so, then this graph doesn't seem accurate. However, they may be other reasons for it, such as I'm wrong. I will try to run a real-world test and just see if I can notice any differences.

We were all upset when they decided to couple the gas engine, but later I decided I was being stupid. If it's more efficient, that's awesome. Fact is, it's absolutely a range extender. The car is an EV until it is depleted.

 

My definition of an optimal PHEV is the one that uses the least amount of energy (doesn't matter which fuel). That'll result in the least emission and impact on the environment. Isn't that what green car means? Have the definition of green changed to "less gasoline"? I'd say that's a greenwash.

Blended mode plugins like Prius PHV or C-Max Energi not only cost less but they use less overall energy. They'll use the gas engine more often. That's because that's a better (more efficient) path from carbon footprint / environment point of view.

From political / energy security point of view, a plugin hybrid like the Volt is better because it can substitute more electricity to cut down more gasoline usage (but not eliminate). To me, a global issue (carbon footprint) is more important than a national issue (oil import). Prius PHV's priority is the global issue but Volt's priority is the national issue.