OK TOYOTA, Now give us our diesel hybrid.

And Volvo did. First production Diesel hybrid I wonder?

Looks like a sweet ride.

People are getting 60-70 mpg with Prius Plug combined after its charge is used. You would want to use the EV to the max to get the best mileage. I'd guess the FWD version of the Volvo Diesel V60 would be getting close to 80-100 mpg in situations where the the Prius Plug is getting 60-70 mpg. The future has arrived.​

 

Does December 2012 mean 'now'?

Or does 'taking orders' mean 'available now'?
Volvo Takes Orders in Europe for V60 Diesel Plug-in Hybrid

Volvo will start V60 diesel plug-in hybrid deliveries in Europe by year-end

 

Noticed this in the Volvo sales brochure.

 

Sorry, I don't see that yet.

But I am seeing a V60 fuel tank capacity of 67.5 liters (17.8 gallons) in the site you mention, and a Hybrid V60 range of 'up to 1,000 km' (620 miles) on an international Volvo site. That suggests a non-plugin fuel economy of less than 35 mpg. Unless the Hybrid has a smaller tank, not yet shown in the specs on former web site, because it isn't actually available yet.

 

117 mpg sounds high but is what they released. With EV battery bank, even running in hybrid mode would get more than a non-EV capable hybrid. It is our battery banks that give us the 50 mpg base in our hybrids. So the 117 mpg could be a realistic, out the driveway with full battery charge and driving in hybrid mode. As we know from our regular Prius, the car goes into EV mode fairly frequently.

 

In the right conditions EPA can be beaten massively by all cars. The combined MPG for the plug-in Prius is rated at 50, though; some will get higher in rare conditions, but most won't, and some will get lower than 50.​

Impossible. Not on US testing with US MPG. Not a chance. In fact, I'll be surprised if it can get even half that, or for that matter match a conventional Prius.

This is not sustained and relies on a pre-charge. That doesn't interest me, as if money is no object (with the price of this thing it appears to be no object) one can always throw more battery capacity in and increase the reliance on EV.​

 

When evaluating mileage claims, the first thing to do is ask yourself what sort of mileage the vehicle could achieve on the flat and level without a hybrid system, using the smallest possible ICE. This will be the limiting mileage for that vehicle. A hybrid system cannot make the ICE and aerodynamics any better, it can only optimize the use of the ICE.

Given that, 117 mpg seems very unlikely for anything other than a special built mileage test car, even on the flat. Over any standard test cycle it sounds completely implausible.

Tom

 

It wouldn't actually be too hard. The only thing we can change to double the Highway MPG (for example) and meet your criteria, would be the coefficient of drag. The Prius Gen II has a Cd of 0.29, half that would be 0.145. Is that possible? The Aerocivic, a home modified version of a civic has a Cd around 0.17. The Urbee would make it.


Even looks like a Prius doesn't it.

Alternatively, of course, we could reduce our speed from 70mph to 54mph to accomplish the same doubling of fuel mileage.

[edit: I now see your 'city' requirement, I will try again later]

 

Doesn't look that terrible, but I've never heard of a car that has a doubling of MPG going from 70 to 54. My prius will do 45-46 while going at 70 and I can think of no case it would do 90 really. Maybe at much much lower speeds.

 

That is the theoretical halfway point. That is, since power required goes up as the cube of the velocity, if the car is equally efficient at all speeds, dropping from 70 to 54 should half the power required.

 

You are mixing plugin with non-plugin modes, which many of us engineers view as a travesty. Just because salescritters and politicians do it, doesn't mean it is right.

 

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But this not counting the EV portion, 10 miles of pure EV. Those are the miles it gets as standard hybrid.​

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If a person has a 20 mile commute, gets 25% at 100mpg and 75% at 50 mpg, they'd get 62 mpg. Fast forward to a car that gets 60 mpg with a Diesel/hybrid and gets 40 miles at EV and you get infinite "mpg" on a 20 mile commute.​

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The V60, rated 60 mpg hybrid, having a bigger battery pack capable of 40 miles EV, will get correspondingly better overall pure hybrid miles. Add in its use of EV and easy to see the 117 mpg rating. A lot has to do with how you choose to rate the 40 miles of EV, 100 mpg? 1000 mpg?​

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But clearly the Volvo V60 Diesel/Hybrid/EV is going to pushing the 100 mpg range.​

 

No. Just pointing out that in DIESEL HYBRID MODE the Volvo V60 will get much better fuel mileage due to two factors.

1. The Diesel will get better mileage than the gas engine.
2. The big battery pack, used in DIESEL HYBRID MODE, just like our non-plug'ins is going to give huge boost to mileage.

 

Please recheck your arithmetic. I get only 57.1 mpg out of this.​

 

Just pointing out that if the V60 Hybrid really got 117 mpg in the same way that our non-plugins get "a huge boost' due to the battery pack, in a calculation that I don't regard as fraudulent, then Volvo should be claiming a fuel range of over 2000 miles, not a mere 620 miles.

If I controlled fuel economy labels, EVs would be rated only by kwh/mile, not MPG-equivalent. Plug-in hybrid ratings would be split into two figures, an EV-only kwh/mile (i.e. Volt's CD mode) and a liquid-fuel-only MPG (Volt's CS mode). But apparently that is too complex for most US consumers.

 

The mere 620 is fine.

 

Are you factoring in the higher energy content of diesel? This is important as it either costs more money, or consumes more crude oil, or both.

Do you have evidence for this contention? My Prius almost never 'runs out' of battery power (or even gets low), so a larger battery would be of limited use.

 

Irrelevant when figuring out miles per gallon.

Something to look at overall but less fuel used in Diesel usually overrides fact takes more oil to make Diesel. In addition, when were are looking at 100mpg range vehicles, the differences in gasoline vs. Diesel become even less important because one is using so little fuel at all. A gallon a week to go work.

I usually run my battery down low as I use EV mode on my Prius III all the time. Last mile home is all EV mode. It often trips off due to low battery.

But overall a bigger battery pack, utilizing regen is going to mean more electrical power and less fuel use. It's been Toyota's way of increasing mileage in Prius. Well proven.

 

How would you label a blended plug in like the Prius? During it's EV mode, it consumed 0.2 gallons of gas on the EPA test.

Gasoline actually has a higher energy density than diesel. It's just that diesel has a higher physical density which gives it more mass per volume.

Energy content plays a part in fuel economy, but it isn't always direct one. Some small studies with ethanol blends have shown that the fuel economy drop lessens has the alcohol content increases. It isn't a straight line.
Premium gas tends to have a lower energy content than regular. Yet a premium fueled car can go a little farther than when burning regular. Improved engine efficiencies from the higher compression make up for the lower energy content.
While the energy content per volume can give diesel cars a better score on official tests, it doesn't change the fact that the engine has a greater thermal efficiency than any available gas one. They just convert more of the chemical energy into mechanical energy. Gasoline is getting closer, but most, if not all of those engines aren't available now.

As to cost, diesel has gone up mostly from the USLD requirement. It now requires further processing. There are also market forces. Gasoline doesn't have much, if any, demand outside personal vehicles. Most commercial trucks are diesel. Along with trains. Then there non transportation demands for diesel, like heating and electric production.

The best crude blends for gasoline production do not contain enough straight gas to meet the demand. So the diesels and heavier oils need to be cracked and reformed to meet that demand. Even if a crude did have enough straight gas, it's octane would be too low. So cracking and reforming is still needed.
Diesel on the other hand just needs distillation and clarification(like sulfur removal). Making gasoline consumes more energy than diesel. Which reduces any production volume advantage it has. Has we start using more unconvential crude, that required energy will go up. For both, but gas already starts in a hole.

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Overuse of EV on a non plug in can actually reduce overall fuel economy.

 

100mpg in an 2000 Honda Insight @ 55mpg on warm days is very doable....110+ @ 50 - the experience of myself and others. After a dozen years, it seems like the tech could allow a two-seater like the Insight to be more streamlined, accomdate four passengers, keep the weight to around 2000 or less. I'd expect the US mpg to be 100 in low-speed highway driving - 75 in more typical highway driving - 60 from leadfoots.