OECD Report: Elec Cars - Ready for Prime Time?

I don't see any data. Is everyone ready to stop the subsidies for gasoline & diesel powered vehicles? How about paying for the infrastructure instead of borrowing for new construction & maintenance? How was the life of an EV determined? Anyone can pull numbers out of their butt.

 

An interesting read, thanks for posting it. I am neither for nor against electric vehicles. For me, it’s more a matter of what works best. I am a brand new hybrid owner and I am driving my first, it is a 2012 Prius trim 2. I chose the Prius because it is more efficient than a gas only vehicle, it reduces my fuel costs, and it fits into my budget. That and Toyota has had ten plus years to get most of the bugs out.


I thought that at one time we were making good progress towards hydrogen fuel cell cars; something I was a big proponent of, but for some reason, we made an abrupt change of direction. I was of course a big fan of the cold fusion powered DeLorean from “Back to the Future II, but I digress.

We first talked about electric cars 100 years ago or so but the problems still remain; not enough range and batteries too heavy. I have to admit that living in the Northeastern US, where weather can change in the blink of an eye and snow can be measured in feet, causes the idea of having to rely on just a big bunch of batteries to be a little disconcerting. It conjures the thought of a flashlight going dead when the power just went out and applies it to my car; not a great mental image. Whereas the hybrid comes with its own backup (the engine) and that makes me feel more confident. I live in a rural area, and if you factor in the need for charging stations everywhere so people can charge up their cars, long charging times, and of course the questions of who will pay for the electricity and how; electric vehicles, for me at least, just aren’t ready for prime time yet. Maybe someday we will break the technology barrier and they will become the cars that will win the future. The Tesla looks promising, its 300 mile range and high performance are getting close to something that will capture folks’ attention; but the price tag, ouch! That is my two cents worth anyway.

By the way, I am really enjoying my new Prius and searching through PC.

 

The EV word on the street here in the UK is how come EV's are proving more popular in the USA where fuel is $3.50 a gallon, not $9.00! You also travel further on a commute and electricity costs pretty much the same in both places.

EV sales here have slowed to a trickle, though they don't seem to be marketed at all, so perhaps a lot of people are not aware they even exist?

The following link sums up some of the issues with the poor street charging networkds though;

A week with the Renault Fluence Z.E.

 

The delivery truck makes frequent stops, "idles" for a period of time, and operates at a relatively low speed. If a hybrid or electric van or truck is designed like the Model S so that the battery doesn't take up cargo space every commercial service would be interested.

When EEVC members converted pick up trucks the beds were full of lead-acid batteries. Now using Lithium batteries they are located in the frame under the bed allowing the truck to retain its cargo space.

It's only a matter of time before FedEx or the delivery industry offers a contract for hybrid or electric vehicles for the fleet.

 

FedEx already has.
They are using EV delivery trucks in some of their urban delivery zones (NY and Chicago so far I think?) with plans for more.

 

The ford transit connect bev is designed this way, unfortunately ford's conversion partner went out of business. The partner was not providing parts, which means ford could do the conversions themselves if they still see a market. Bigger vehicles likely would be phevs, which make great sense. The nice thing about the idea for the transit connect type delivery van is many of these have depots that thay return to. With DC fast chargers in the depot, they don't need as much range.

FedEx and UPS are trying them out. I saw a couple of UPS hybrids last week.

 

FedEx and UPS have been trying alternatives for years. They run hybrids and NG as well.

But it's still just trying and until they absolutely commit the manufacturing volume isn't going to be there to bring down prices.

Frito Lay has the largest electric delivery fleet in the USA, used for shorter urban routes, and they've now purchased CNG trucks as well for larger loads and longer distances. Being a product delivery fleet instead of a general delivery fleet I'd suspect they have less concern about flexibility.

(The UK used to have the most electric vehicles, due to the use as "milk floats" which were ideal vehicles for the early-morning doorstep delivery. Early birds would hear the gentle whirr of the motor, but it was less noticeable than the clinking of milk bottles. Now most people buy milk from supermarkets.)

 

For FedEx and UPS the likely best vehicle is a CNG plug in hybrid. This immunizes them against spikes in gas prices, and allow them to have a greener look to their customers. I don't think volumes today would drop prices that much. Battery prices are coming down, and the government may give big incentives to convert to natural gas. Experimenting now and doing the whole fleet conversion when prices drop due to battery improvements and government incentives makes business sense.

They better know what their future needs are, but they likely would do best with the same type of trucks, but perhaps different battery sizes than fed ex/ups. If miles are mostly electric, a diesel generator may make more sense than natural gas depending on location.

On things like garbage trucks the winner appears to be hybrid hydrolic diesel, but NYC is trying battery hybrids too.

I still like the idea of the bev transit connect as a delivery vehicel. Its really too bad the conversion company went under. I hope ford starts doing the manufacturing in house.

 

Where? Transits are manufactured in Kocaeli, in Turkey.

The Ford model told me they weren't at all serious about it. Ford was sending the glider from a high-volume plant to a low-volume plant. Costs are higher and production won't scale.

Even though the manufacturers are not committed to volume production of the Focus EV and RAV4 EV, at least they'll be more able to respond if demand increases.

 

Oh c'mon jim . . . . Everybody knows gas cars are the only way to go. ;-)
Just last week a fellow (that drove the first leaf from through mexico border to canadian border) told me the story of the first ice that drove across the united states. It took several months. Never mind the fact that ice vehicles were in there infancy. Back in that early time, everyone knew that the train was the only way to travel if you had to go far. It's all about infrastructure & technology improvements. How soon we forget - that it (infrastructure & technology) doesn't happen overnight. Here we are once again . . . history repeats itself.

America on the Move | First to Drive across the Continent


.

 

And that's why the UK was behind America with the widespread introduction of the automobile. Why spend money on that new fangled contraption when you can go anywhere in the UK in the comfort of a train?

 

To avoid the Chicken Tax, the Transit Connects have their glass and seats removed, and then re-installed with new parts near the port of entry. The same would have to be done with gliders. So setting up a conversion shop at the same location might be feasible. I don't think there is enough demand to make it worthwhile though.

 

Another "this aint gonna work for everyone so its not gonna work!" article. like duh!!

a 16 mpg Diesel with 800 ft/lbs of torque aint gonna work for me under ANY circumstances, but that does not prevent them from being sold like hot cakes at $60,000 a pop!

As Evan said; EVs are a great idea for a few, good idea for many, and very much a viable option for just about everyone. Rare will be the household that can use it as their sole source of transportation, but just as rare is the household that only has one vehicle. for them; EVs are not yet to that point.

As Hill said; we are getting more and more range out of EVs every day WITHOUT battery improvements which are coming probably much sooner than we thought (it aint 3-5 years away anymore) because we are getting infrastructure support and he only illustrates the same old argument from any conversion from Horses to trains, to cars to planes, to whatever.

what good is a car with a 1000 mile range if the nearest gas station is 1100 miles away? so EVs are simply in the process of growing pains, the same process every transportation mode went thru. i suppose you dont remember the days of trains and their being the only way to travel. how about when it took 2 days by horseback to get to the train station?

now, my area is just now getting to the next level of EV support with the Quick Charge stations finally starting to come around. one thing i found out rather quickly; sitting around for 30 minutes when i am not in the mood feels like 3 hours. its not insurmountable. but to be honest with ya, as soon as i clear out my FB, emails, etc. i am ready to leave.

the other thing i found out is that for the most part; i only need 10 minutes. i found that in 10 minutes, i get back about 20-24 miles of range. the 2nd 10 minutes, i get about 14-20 miles of range (it all depends on how low you are when you start. unless pretty near depleted, the 2nd 10 minutes charge rate drops off quite a bit) and the 3rd 10 minutes can be 10-14 miles of range.

but one thing i realized is that if charging was available everywhere like gas stations, my 100 mile EV (actually only about 85 miles in summer with "normal" driving) can easily be a 150 mile or better EV and we now have SEVERAL real life examples that prove that.

basically the article was written by a non EV owner who decided to put a negative slant and that would be what is portrayed. i did not read it, but i dont have to. everyone has an opinion, you read his and if you got this far, now you have read mine

 

His full paper is here:
OECD/ITF: JTRC Discussion Papers

His conclusion is basically this: If you own an electric vehicle for 15 years and drive it a total of 118,000 miles in its lifetime, you will spend about the same as an ICE-based vehicle, assuming a $6,000 subsidy, over $13,000 for battery rental and another $6,000 for some unspecified costs, and THAT is why an electric vehicle costs more.

So he claims:
Super-cheap EV: $25,000
Subsidy: - $5,000
Battery Rental: $13,000
Mystery fees: $6,000

Add $19,000 to the price, and suddenly it doesn't compare with a gas-powered vehicle. Do you agree with this?

 

1) what is the $6000 fee for?
even if i got my brake fluid replaced yearly that would be about ($65*15= $975)
new tires twice at $600 a pop makes 1200.

brakes (highly doubt it will be needed) $400

that is about 2600, not even close.

then the $13,000 battery rental? hmm, ya ok. still EVs are much cheaper but mostly because they are more efficient and use home grown power. Oil is a loser, plain and simple and it does not matter what car you use, how many mpgs it gets or how good a deal you can get on it.

matching features between EVs and ICEs is not needed

check out the video i posted here ford focus electric's new advertising campaign | PriusChat