Next voltec, what do you think of the new rumors

Great discussion about the car folks. The he said/she said stuff is boring. J, D, and U rarely say anything new.

It is funny/odd/predicable on this forum that most of the conversations are around CO2 and MPG. Personally I'm very impressed that GM engineers and designers weighed the pros/cons of those and blended them with a dynamic, smooth, and quiet "luxury" feel car. I dare guess that MOST do NOT want a high RPM reving noisy drive for a few miles and then back down to a "smooth and quiet" ride. That is not a good "UI" IMHO.

 

To clarify John's point:

Press Release - TOYOTA REVEALS DETAILS OF PRIUS PLUG-IN CONCEPT

Using the 83% NEDC to EPA fudge factor gives ... 10.32 miles. Then add in 0.02 gallons and you can get 11 miles with 34.15mpg under harsh demand.

Definitely not 15 miles.

 

That was not a goal for the production, that was for the prototypes, which were a different design.

Here is the announcement of the production
Toyota | Toyota Introduces 2012 Prius Plug-in Hybrid
Which says 15miles.

I looked a bit and did not see anything with a production model goal before then. if you know one, please post it.

 

That's where the product diversity comes in. They can produce whatever 'great' configuration they want as along as there is also a choice that will be purchased by the masses.

The clock is ticking. The tax-credit will expire. We have genuine emission & dependency problems. Meanwhile, the competition (traditional vehicles) continue their dominance reign by introducing MPG improvements.

 

I likely owe you apology then. In the those long Volt threads here, I may have started treating the multiple Volt opponents as one.

I have had discussions with you in the past where we may of been of opposing views but were constructive. Your first post here was trollish though. We are just shooting the breeze with what ifs to pass the time. If some outsider takes what was said on Priuschat about a future Volt and runs with it, that isn't any poor showing on us or GM.

 

No grudges held here. I state observations, then push to move on.

That comes with taking a "pushy" stance. Wanting to move on means not letting the rehash of old information dominate anymore. Unfortunately, that desire for progress appears to others as "rocking the boat". And sadly, the approach has been to welcome "cheerleading" and shun those attempting to have more than just the repeating of particular points.

Think about what still hasn't been addressed yet, items we don't stand a chance at discussing while the rhetoric continues.

It's been a heck of a challenge trying to get any real-world data about winter performance. It's a topic that is simply dismissed whenever brought up. That makes a topic like recharging in winter a daunting challenge to even just acknowledge. Are people of the fact that charge-rate can be reduced in sub-freezing temperatures? Think about the influence that could have on capacity discussion. Many haven't, yet pounce on those who attempt to bring it up.

Thankfully, we are beyond the paranoid stage. In the past, when a Prius supporter would bring something like that up in a discussion about Volt, it was immediately assumed to be an effort to undermine Volt. The enthusiasts were in a state of panic, blindly lashing out in fear of anything that could tarnish reputation. I sure am glad that isn't the case anymore. Phew!

 

power

I agree, time is passing and the tax-credit will soon vaporize. Competition in the traditional vehicles is getting stronger with improved MPG. Also, what can not be discounted or ignored is the current state of economic affairs (IE: unemployment, falling purchasing power and line of credit being lowered). Lower purchasing power limits the masses to what they can purchase for new vehicles.

Tax-credits are, and will always be a "bandaid" approach to entice consumers to make a purchase. Another way to look at the tax-credit issue of is: it is a form of welfare, somebody has to pay the bill. The taxpayers get stuck footing the bill just like the "bailout" money forwarded to keep GM from sinking.

No surprise here.
uck footing th

 

Your orginal post in this thread

Was NOT about anything useful nor asking meaningful questions, it was you making vague condescending, without reference or support. The vicious cycle is your condescending comments without content, then claiming your just trying to move forward.

It has never been at all hard to get real-world winter performance on Volts; there is plenty of data over at voltstats.net. You are free to analyze to your heart's content. Volt owners have had discussions at GM-volt.com about the temp and charge rate issues, but its rather academic since it adds maybe 10% to the charge time -- people suggesting its an issue may get a cold welcome because they are pushing a non-issue as something important. Charging time as almost nothing do to with range. The real cold-weather range issue is first about how much heat they choose to use, and second about battery differences. But looking at say Minnesota Volt owners from Dec 1 2011 to March 1, the Median %EV was still over 75, and median MPG was over 150, which means battery range was still enough for most people in Minnesota, in the cold of winter. So based on real-world data, it does not look like the cold is that much of a problem for the Volt.

Real world winter performance of PiP's that not available, but I doubt that's what you meant. In fact real world data for PiP is very limited for any setting.

 

This thread IS just a RUMOR - get it? Time to lighten up!

DBCassidy

 

John, could you show me any thread at PC in which this topic was ever raised and simply dismissed?
I am assuming you mean range and not charge rate?
I would be happy to give you any information you would like about the Volt's behavior in cold weather that I can from my experience with it.

 

I don't recall ever not providing this information or shying away from discussing it.

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  Energy Consumption
  
  The Engine running due to temp occurs when outside temp is < 25F and with temp belo 25, the engine restarts when Coolant is < 105F, and runs...​
  Post by: drinnovation, Jan 4, 2012 in forum: Chevrolet Volt
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  Will the Chevrolet Volt be a failure or a success?
  
  What do you think the gas-only mileage would be? That is a substantial reduction in range. I assume its gas motor cannot shed heat into the cabin...​
  Post by: Skoorbmax, Oct 4, 2011 in forum: Chevrolet Volt

Read more: http://priuschat.com/search/198936/?q=volt+cold+temperature+AER+gwmort&o=date&c[node]=76#ixzz1yjdIOPEo​

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The press release said concept, not prototype. They are different things.
They used the word target.

To me that reads as the target being to produce a car with a 20km NEDC range, just as the Volt's target was 40/50.

"Up to 15 miles" is neither "EPA estimated 15" nor "NEDC estimated 15 miles".

You can be critical of Toyota for being misleading, but I'm not surprised they wouldn't want to say an estimated 6 miles AER or 11 miles blended given that people living near the end of that range would likely have lower average speeds and better ranges.

 

My favorite part is when John insinuates the tax credit will run out soon, which he knows is based on 200,000 sales, then says its not selling.

 

Again, I didn't say that.

It was time, not quantity.

What I actually said was dropping the cost to compenstate for the entire tax-credit prior to it expiring is quite unrealistic in such a short amount of time. And that's just to make up the difference. To reach the GM stated goal, even more must be cut.

When 2015 arrives, it doesn't matter how many were sold. Say goodbye to that money. And of course, there is the reality of mandated budget cuts ending incentives early.

 

What is the basis for that statement about a 2015 ending date? While it is always possible for congress to change things, and the mandated budget cuts reducing the number, the current authorizing acts are based on numbers sold, not a date. See Internal Revenue Bulletin - November 30, 2009 - Notice 2009-89

 

GM has to be acutely aware of cutting unit production costs in order to increase sales. If the tax-credit where eliminated within the next year,due to budget cuts, what would GM do? I think that GM has very little "wiggle room" in having the financial "deep pockets" to keep going with the Volt. I also believe that, currently each Volt GM is selling, there is very little, if any profit being made. More likely each sale is a loss, for GM.

DBCassidy