GPS Study Shows Drivers Will Slow Down, At A Cost

You need to get East to the DC area.... I defie anyone to try and stay within the posted on any major road....

 

Not a chance. DC has too much violence on and off the highway, and won't recognize my state's handgun carry license. I'm much safer staying here in the PNW, where obeying traffic safety law is far better tolerated.

 

You may be missing that I said the DC area... Not DC proper....Never mind the hype in the press you hear...

Things may be different out in the PNW, but I feel safer in keeping your gun out this way. The activist SCOTUS seems to agree with you in some ways though...

 

I get my crime figures direct from the FBI UCR, unfiltered by the hype of those whose business models require them to work hard to draw viewer attention.

I saw it as a SCOTUS setting straight some activist federal courts that followed a few activist judges who intentionally misread prior SCOTUS decisions.

 

The truth can at times be incredible and I share surprise with you over this matter, but alas it is fact. I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles and received no moving violations. Perhaps you could even read between the lines and see that if this is fact the chances are pretty good I'm not regularly doing 55 in a 35 or 90 in a 65, etc.

If you a qualifying my driving as stupid because I don't always sit below the limit, so be it.

Speaking of "hard to believe" I find it very, very, very hard to believe (as does everybody in this thread) that you never go above the posted speed limit. Are you truly asserting that? If it is true I in fact urge you to stop driving because you must be a horrendously un-confident driver, petrified by the act of it, and more likely a threat to others than the rest of us, who drive slightly above the speed limit. The very few people I've ever known who drive right at the limit at all times were overwhelmed by the experience, two hands gripping the wheel in revulsion, and had tunnel vision. Not an enjoyable experience driving with them. Moreover, they hold up traffic unnecessarily, using a child-like morality of blind rule obedience.

BTW, this includes cops, who I also speed all the time, and I'm sure engineers, who you appeal to have spoken to in great detail about these matters. I have also passed hundreds of speed traps and seen millions of people pass speed traps while speeding and no tickets. It is rarer than hen's teeth for a cop to give a ticket for, say, 71 in a 65. Happens to infrequently that this is the standard speed on highways in this area, thousands of people running past speed traps at that velocity all the time without incident. This is surely also why this GPS study only penalized people after a certain buffer; not right above the speed limit but several MPH of leeway first, as is practical.

 

One data point doesn't make a trend, but I'll toss mine in: I'm an engineer, a pilot, a marine captain, a trained heavy equipment operator, and a very experienced driver. I always drive right at the speed limit whenever possible. I do this for three reasons:

1. The type of cars that I drive. I have a Prius and a Jeep Wrangler. Neither are what one would consider a sports car, so there is no great joy in pushing them.
2. I'm now in my mid-fifties. I am probably running on less testosterone than when I was in my twenties.
3. Principle - The speed limit is an absolute limit. It's not the suggested speed, it is the maximum speed. Now we all know that speed limits are set low to allow for people's cheating tendencies, but the engineer in me rebels against this. A limit is a limit. If you want to drive faster, change the limit.

I used to drive faster when I lived in the city and drove a Honda CRX. I was also a lot younger and in a bigger hurry.

So in my case there is no link between lack of experience and speed limit driving. I would say that for speed limit driving, lack of experience might be sufficient, but it's not necessary.

Tom

 

I think many should be changed--mainly on highways, and IIRC there is data supporting the safety of higher speed limits in some areas--and these are therefore changing. A jaunt through Maine recently showed me 75 mph speed limits. I'm sure they weren't that high before. The cruising speed thus noticed by drivers was about 80 mph.

The problem with a limit being a limit is that it's not. There isn't a road engineer in the country who doesn't know that the huge majority of drivers speed and thus the signs are created with this expectation. I am vocal in this thread but to be sure I represent the massive, overwhelming majority of drivers in fudging the posted limit.

 

The last time I saw data, it seemed to indicate that fatalities per capita were higher in low population places (those places where higher speeds are being put in place).

 

I've got to say number 3 is a wrong and not a sign of good critical reasoning. The speed limit is not an absolute limit. Otherwise we would require you had your speedometer calibrated more precisely, I know mine reads high but within legal limits . But, it is a poor attitude that makes you judgmental of others. Which is why some states have other laws. such as impeding traffic in the left lane is illegal even if you are going the "speed limit". Further the limit is often lower, following the letter of the sign makes you ignore conditions when lower speeds are needed for safety. I ride a motorcycle slower than a porsche, and I'm safer according to statistics in the porsche.
Its fine to set your cruze control to what the sign says, but its poor citizenship to think of everyone going 1 mph over the limit as dangerous criminals.

There are also roads with limits too high. I know my city needed to justify 55mph to the state for a section that was built with onramps too short. Many places just let the politicians set it, and states aren't very good at that. Texas raised some roads too high, but those sections in the middle of nowhere are safe at 80mph.

 

TRAFFIC FATALITIES PER 100 MILLION VEHICLE MILES, 2007

1 Montana 2.45
2 Louisiana 2.17
3 West Virginia 2.10
4 South Carolina 2.09
5 Mississippi 2.04
6 Arkansas 1.96
7 Alabama 1.81
8 Kentucky 1.80
9 Tennessee 1.70
10 Arizona 1.69
11 Nevada 1.68
12 Alaska 1.63
14 South Dakota 1.62
14 North Carolina 1.62
16 Idaho 1.60
16 Wyoming 1.60
17 Oklahoma 1.58
18 Florida 1.56
19 New Mexico 1.54
20 Georgia 1.46
21 Missouri 1.43
23 Iowa 1.42
23 North Dakota 1.42
25 Kansas 1.38
25 Texas 1.38
26 Pennsylvania 1.37
United States 1.36
27 Hawaii 1.33
28 Nebraska 1.32
29 Oregon 1.31
30 Wisconsin 1.27
31 Indiana 1.26
32 Virginia 1.25
33 Delaware 1.23
34 Maine 1.22
District of Columbia 1.22
35 California 1.21
36 Illinois 1.16
38 Colorado 1.14
38 Ohio 1.14
39 Utah 1.11
40 Maryland 1.09
41 Michigan 1.04
42 Washington 1.00
43 New York 0.97
44 New Hampshire 0.96
45 New Jersey 0.95
46 Minnesota 0.88
48 Connecticut 0.86
48 Vermont 0.86
49 Rhode Island 0.80
50 Massachusetts 0.76

 

Montana - one of the last states to abolish drinking & driving. I have marveled at the thought of driving by cops and pounding down a Miller draft. It wasn't but a few years ago that it was still legal. Between that and our recently abolished "open speed" laws while out on the own road .... it's no wonder MT leads in Fatalities. That combo made for lots of roadside memorials.

SGH-I717R ? 2

 

I'm not aware of any state in which you are impeding traffic if you are going the speed limit. It doesn't matter if the drivers behind you want to go faster. The posted limit is the legal limit, and requiring you to drive faster would be requiring you to break the law.

What states are these, please?

 

With so few people, I was surprised that there were that many people to hit. Louisiana makes sense with the drive up bars and weather.

The one I know has used the citations is california. This is the code

22400. (a) No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow​

speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of​

traffic unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation,​

because of a grade, or in compliance with law.​

I know people have been ticketed under it. This is only on multilane highways where the slow driver was in the left lane. Texas has a similar law, but I don't think anyone has been ticketed. You are required to use the turn outs on two lane highways to allow faster traffic to pass. People in Texas will often pull to the shoulder of two lane highways to allow people to pass if they want to go faster. That isn't the law, but it is a friendly way to drive.

Which means at least 2 states that I have lived in have laws against going the speed limit in the fast lane while impeding traffic. I'm sure if you investigate further some of the other 48 will also make going slow in the fast lane a traffic violation. But as I said, only in California are you likely to be ticketed. Since you can move over to a lane to the right, going the speed limit in the left lane has no excuse in following the law.

 

I think this is saying the opposite of what you are contending. If the reduced speed is in compliance with the law, then you are allowed to drive that speed.

 

No, since you are able to go the speed limit in the right lane, if traffic is going faster than the speed limit in the left lane, you must move right to not impede traffic. Going the speed limit, but impeding traffic in the left lane, is not only rude it is a traffic infraction.

This is also the reason that you are required to use turn outs in texas on two lane highways. You are not the police, and at least in texas and california it is against the law to willfully impede traffic. But like most other laws, you are unlikely to be ticketed. When I see someone going slow in the left lane, I often wonder how they were raised so poorly.

 

He also pointed out the ticketed weren't in the right lane. The impeding traffic citations are used to enforce the stay right except to pass concept. You want to drive the limit stay in the right lane. Don't force people to , potentially break the law, by passing you on the right. May not be on California books do to congestion, but left lane for passing only is in other areas. It is regularly enforced on the Autobahn.

 

this is just the first step. we all know that speeding is a major issue. its funny how we brush off the number of deaths caused by speed but then go bonkers over something else that causes the same number or less deaths.

we do this in the name of "freedom of choice". iow, we decide for ourselves what we are capable of doing as far as how fast we should drive, etc. problem with that; our varying degrees of self evaluations and delusions of grandeur.

most of us think of ourselves as safe drivers and if put to the test, we probably would do reasonably well. but speed limits are in place because a large percentage of the times, we are only half paying attention to where we are going.

newer cars designed to be safer are actually making it easier to take one's attention off the road and onto the playlist of our sync'd i pod or smartphone.

My Key from Ford allows you to program a specific Fob that prevents the car from exceeding a set speed. great for your teenaged driver but unfortunately it currently does not consider the posted speed limit so obviously a 65 mph limit does little to prevent one from driving 45 in a 35.

that will change and it will change because there is a need. a need we all want for "others"

 

Wow I don’t know where to start with your arrogance and condescension. First of all I too have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in my life and I can assure you I am very comfortable behind the wheel. I do not drive in fear; in fact it is just the opposite. I am very confident on the road, my years of experience help to keep me well-grounded while driving. I drive in the slow lane and only leave it to pass someone going slower than myself; unless it’s a big multilane highway where the left lane is for traffic entering and exiting the expressway then I drive in the next lane to the right still leaving the passing lane open. You say my feelings are misplaced and that I should read between the lines, but if I do, I see that you don’t regularly go 55 in a 35 or 90 in a 65, which means that you do break the speed limit to these extremes just not regularly. You next make the only correct statement in your post when you agree that your speeding is stupid which it is.

Next you speak for “everyone in this thread” suggesting they all agree with you, quite a bold assertion. You also claim to speak for all engineers and police officers. Do you speak for God too?

For your information I do try to stay within the speed limits at all times. I am human and I do catch myself going faster than I should and slow myself back down to the limits. I never speed by intent, there is no reason to. The few minutes you save are not worth it. That brings us to the “buffer zone” as you call it. That 5 mph over the limit is not meant as an excuse to speed it is meant to allow people some wiggle room for speedometer calibration issues and being human.

I am a former broadcast engineer and in my job limits were just that limits. When voltage, current, audio, and video levels went over the limits bad things happened. If it were as you suggest then we would have “speed suggestions” not “speed limits” and as a matter of fact we do have those; they are suggested speeds for certain roads and conditions that are put onto yellow caution signs, whereas the speeds on the white signs are LIMITS. There is a difference. Let’s follow your logic. Claiming speeding is legal because you can get away with it is ridiculous. I could probably get away with growing pot in my back yard, and it should be OK to sell it to kids as long as I only sell them a little of it right? I mean everyone does it right? Bank robbery being illegal is just silly; as long as I only demand 5 or 10 bucks from the teller what’s the big deal, and those people who were in the bank trying to make a legal transaction and were shot deserved what they got they were in the way when I tried to rob the bank.

Lastly I am sick and tired of hearing how people that follow the rules are a traffic hazard. It is YOU the law breakers that are the hazard; not the law abiding citizen.

 

But that isn't what the law you cited says. Read it again, and tell me how it says what you are saying.

 

I am sorry that you do not understand, that is how the state of California interprets the law. I suggest you ask the California dmv whether it is legal to impede traffic on a multilane highway by going the speed limit in the left lane while people are attempting to use it to pass. I am sure a judge will not agree with your interpretation. You are only allowed to impede traffic for reasons of safety. If you can move to the right safely, you should not be impeding traffic in the passing lane. If someone passes you on the left, and is speeding, that is a matter for that car, not you. Again the cop is being a D&CK if they do give you a ticket instead of a warning, but they are allowed to by law, and have done it.

Just think for a moment what all you speed limit means the speed limit don't exceed by even 1 mph are thinking. It is explicitly pointed out in the texas statutes that you not only are allowed, but are encouraged to pass a car by going faster than the speed limit. If you clog up the left hand lanes, you are blocking them for emergency vehicles too. On Two lane highways it is illegal to pass too slow in the lane of oncoming traffic. How do you think you people normally accomplish safe passing in these conditions? They legally exceed the posted speed limit. It is right there in the law.