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Duke & Progress merger, greener or browner

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by austingreen, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/04/business/energy-environment/duke-energy-merger-creates-largest-us-utility.html?_r=1

    This is one of the few companies that can build new nukes. At a last minute switch that smacks of back office dealings, the ceo's were switched. Does this mean less agressive nuclear power?
    Duke-Progress merger puts restart of Florida reactor in doubt - Chicago Tribune

    The key to natural gas versus fixing the nuc and adding more according to Rogers is the price of natural gas. That makes me think that the nuke won't be turned back on, and more combined cycle plants added. Depending on your point of view one is better than the other. From the ghg hawk pov this is a bad thing, from the german green pov a good one. One thing for sure is Roger can play politics and Duke is a leading contributor to democrats and republicans.

    Duke was one of the major proponents of ghg cap and trade, and got special favors for its coal operations in the bill. The new company may be even more influential

    Lobbyists for cap and trade face daunting task| Reuters


     
  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    OK I saw this merger on the web site, did not appreciate it was a new development.
    Reading Yergin's Quest he mentions that the first 6 new nukes get large gov't incentives.
    Probably need to be in the running for that. How about replace aged nuke with nat gas turbines, build a few clean coal IGCC, some wind, more nat gas, encourage PV on roofs, and green nuke small SMR for Apple. Hit the easy button.
     
  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    The merger is old news, the new news is that it just went through, with duke telling all the regulators that Johnson, the progress CEO would be head of the new company. In less than a day after he took over he got a big golden handshake, and the company CEO was Rogers again. Regulators are investigating. Did they have this plan all along and lie to regulators or did something happen? People at progress are worried there will be massive layoffs, that the progress boards would not have allowed, but the new board is 10:5 Duke to Progress. Duke claims it was about the nuclear strategy.

    The first question is will the damaged florida nuclear plant be repaired. It is much less expensive to repair it than to build a new nuclear plant. Rogers said that the question boils down to the price of natural gas. The switch at CEO means it is likely Duke will not repair it. That means they will likely not push plans to build the nuclear power plants on the table. The new company has 6 of the most likely nuclear power plants to be built, and the question is if killing these plans is a good idea or not.

    If cap and trade when through, then Duke would have been paid lots of money to build nukes and shut down some coal. At today's prices though new natural gas and wind are less expensive than nuclear power.

    Duke has great political power, both at the state and national levels. If they did lie to regulators, what should be done to punish them. 85% of the new merged company is regulated.

    Duke is already mandated to be at least 10$ renewable in NC by 2020, and is almost all coal and nuclear today. IMHO the nuclear strategy doesn't make much sense in the south east today. No reason for them to add any IGCC there either.[/quote][/quote]
     
  4. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    Just this year a big natural gas line has been installed to feed Crystal River. Got to see the massive welding effort along US19. The only question is this to going to replace the coal plant or both the coal and nuke plant there.

    As far as the nuclear plant---There are no industry regulations, procedures or certifications for repairing a massively cracked containment dome. That's a very major reason for the massive confusion of what to do with the nuclear plant. Neither the government or utility has a clue what to do and how to do it. Also, there is not a single company out there that has done anything like this, so "who ya gonna call"? Given all those complete unknowns, how can it be priced? If it cannot be priced, what do you present to the Public Service Commission? (Which is in hot water for giving Progress energy a utility rate increase for financing a new nuclear plant without any requirement to actually build a new nuclear plant!!!) Meanwhile, I'm sure that Duke Power was told by Progress Energy that "we have it under control"....and then found out that they have completely lost control of the situation.
     
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I thought they priced it at around $1.3B, but costs could be higher. Insurance was suposed to cover about 3/4, but we don't know what is going on, and there are secrets. Progress wanted to build Levy County for around $20B for 2.3GW of nuclear power. Maybe some of the secrets will come out, either way florida residents not Duke are likely to pay.

    Secrets about Crystal River nuclear plant could be revealed at hearings this week - Tampa Bay Times


    Note, instead of spending $20B on Levy County power plant 2.3GW Nuclear, they could spend less than $7B for 2.5 GW of fast cycling combined cycle natural gas and 1 GW of Solar. This would get rid of most of the green house gas and pollution of closing the same coal plants. Fuel would be more expensive, but solar should decrease in price. As fuel prices go up and solar prices down, more solar could be added with some of that money not spent on nuclear. Wind is good in NC but not very good in Florida, or I would suggest wind with that natural gas plant. Solar utilization is much lower than nuclear, but occurs when florida is at peak power needs.
     
  6. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    2011 was bad enough for nuke industry...Is there an implication this cracked containment vessel is another example of systemic problem or setback, when the secret report comes out?
     
  7. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Progress self contracted the repair, instead of hiring a contractor. The repair was claimed to cost around $80M, but they caused structural damage, and that will cost over $1B. The questions are was it negligence and whether insurance will cover the repair. There may be more things that were damaged in the initial repair, and we don't know if costs were kept secret.

    If progress can not competently operate nuclear power plants, they may be subject to NRC issues.
     
  8. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    The whole problem started when Progress Energy decided to cut a new big hole in the containment structure to remove and replace a steam generator instead of using the original access. The core problem was a "cost savings" decision to forgo hiring specialist in concrete cutting and use internal engineering resources of the utility to perform the job! What they did not know was "detensioning" the very high tensile rebar rings and cables needs to be done in a very specific pattern and time course. So they basically just cut them all at once and set off a chain reaction of delaminating the entire inner and outer layers of the containment structure. Oops. That's no secret. What is secret is the massive finger pointing exercise of who to blame without being blamed...... Or how do we claim this is an act of god (so the public has to pay) vs. an act of stupidity (where our bonuses might get reduced).
     
  9. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    OK thanks guys...this sounds like are talking about mismanagement, but NOT an issue with radiation control.
     
  10. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Yes, this plant was safely shut down for the maintenance/upgrade. Afterwards San Onofre was safely shut down for even more of an upgrade. San Onofre, the plant in southern California then let out small amounts of radiation, and has been shut down since. The california plant is one to worry more about, and I would like it to stay off. This is in a highly populated area that grew since the plant was put into service. SCE seemed to do this maintance correctly and the upgrade still may need to be repaired. This makes the progress repair seem more risky. If insurance won't fully cover Duke repairing the nuclear plant, and something went wrong again, its a very expensive proposition.

    San Onofre, Indian Point, and Diablo Canyon are the three that seem to be the riskiest nuclear power plants.