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ABS warning light came on.

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Octavius, Jul 28, 2012.

  1. Octavius

    Octavius New Member

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    Well, this is one we haven't seen before.
    My wife said it came on (with alarm ding) when she started the engine up. After the 3rd start up it was not on, so she drove home, with apparently the braking action normal.
    I'm just wondering if there is anything I can check before a mechanic looks at it.
    Appreciate any comments.
    Thanks.
    (2001 Prius 208k miles)
    (Very recently - had inverter pump and struts replaced. Changed the spark plugs, cleaned throttle plate and replaced fan belt myself)
    Tomorrow I'll check the brake fluid level and read any codes.
     
  2. Avi's Advanced Automotive

    Avi's Advanced Automotive Independent hybrid repair shop

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  3. Octavius

    Octavius New Member

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    Avi,
    Many thanks for the reply and link to photos - I'll take a look tomorrow morning.
     
  4. Octavius

    Octavius New Member

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    OK, brake fluid is still at the full mark. No engine codes. Tried to see underneath with a mirror and flashlight but couldn't see much.

    The link Avi provided indicates it is an involved job (even re-assembling with a replacement booster is complicated).

    Haynes doesn't even mention the booster so I'll drop it off at a Prius-familar mechanic today, unless the group here as any other ideas.
    Thanks.
     
  5. Octavius

    Octavius New Member

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    OK, here's the deal.
    The independant shop, who have done good work on the Prius before, called back.
    They pulled C1251 code and also confirmed it is leaking, as Avi predicted.
    Pump $1300 (goodnight!) and labor $500.
    There's a bunch of places online that have remanufactured ones but, when you go to order the dang thing, a msg pops up saying they are out of stock.
    What do you think of getting a used one? The shop is a bit weary of this but would install it.

    This job requires a $$$$ scan tool that actually performs the bleed operation. Therefore, I can't install it myself and drive down to the shop for them to finish off the bleeding, right?

    Not trying to be too cheap but I have more time than money these days.
     
  6. Avi's Advanced Automotive

    Avi's Advanced Automotive Independent hybrid repair shop

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    If you are finding the Centric brand re-manufactured pump it does not exist and is a catalog error.

    I personally would not install a used one on a customers car for liability reasons, however, I might on my personal vehicle. I would suggest you find one that has not started leaking yet and maybe replace the o-ring (90301-13014) on the accumulator. I'm pretty sure these o-rings are leaking brake fluid which is getting into the electric motor portion of the pump and causing it to fail. The one I replaced only had 60K miles on it.

    You can also get the pump new without the accumulator, part # 47906-47010 MSRP $842.06. I don't believe the accumulator can/does leak. While I have not re-used an accumulator, I don't think it would be a problem.

    You do need a capable scan tool to bleed the system. These look harder to replace then they are, and are definitely easier with the car on a lift.
     
  7. Octavius

    Octavius New Member

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    Thanks for all the good info, Avi.

    I've decided to get a used pump from Ebay. I was thinking of putting this in myself but figuring in the cost of a tow (so they can bleed it) and some other things, I don't think I'm going to save all that much. Plus, there will be more chance of success with a qualified Toyota mechanic working on it than myself. Also, though I've done a bunch of work from under my MG, I still don't like crawling under 2 tons of unforgiving metal.

    I'll go ahead and replace that O-ring - many thanks for that little tidbit.
    Where do you think sells that little item? I like RockAuto for Toyota stuff but I'm sure they don't stock such an obscure item. Suppose I could try the dealership but that place gives me the creeps.

    Will let you know what turns up.

    Cheers!
     
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  8. Avi's Advanced Automotive

    Avi's Advanced Automotive Independent hybrid repair shop

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    I would get it from the dealer, the MSRP on it is less then $4. I like visiting the dealer parts department, it's the sales and service departments that give me the creeps. Don't forget you should be able to get the instructions to replace it on TIS.
     
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Also don't forget that included in the small charge for 2-day access to TIS you also get to use the Techstream lite software during that same period. If you already have a laptop then you're only looking at a J2534 adapter to buy, which may run ~ $400 but you get to keep it and you can buy a couple days' Techstream access on TIS whenever you need it. That makes it just a $$ scantool instead of a $$$$ scantool.

    -Chap
     
  10. Octavius

    Octavius New Member

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    Will do.
    Thanks for the link to the TIS, I was going to ask about online manuals!

    Just to clarify one point:
    If I change out the pump, is the car still driveable? ie will the brakes still work, but without the power-assist.
    I understabd the pump circuit will require professional bleeding but is that separate from the master cylinder circuit (both circuits connected with diaphragms or whatever) Or is the brake fluid all in one big circuit.
    Cheers
     
  11. Octavius

    Octavius New Member

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    Wow! I may have to check that out. Thanks for the info.
    Cheers

    PS Chap, where would someone buy a J2534 adapter - I've googled but no success.
     
  12. Avi's Advanced Automotive

    Avi's Advanced Automotive Independent hybrid repair shop

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    I'm pretty sure you need to pay $55 if to want to use techstream as opposed to $15 for just info. There are others such as openport 2.0 and mangoose.
     
  13. Avi's Advanced Automotive

    Avi's Advanced Automotive Independent hybrid repair shop

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    Iv'e never tried driving without bleeding and have no idea what would happen.

    The pump supplies the brake system with pressurized brake fluid which it uses to apply the friction brakes giving you the feeling of power brakes. Without it the brake system switches to a traditional system without power assist. I guess you can say it is all one big circuit.
     
  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Oh yeah, that's right, thanks for the reminder. Per the chart on the TIS front page, use of Techstream is in the "Professional Diagnostic" subscription category but not the "Standard" category, and clicking through to the subscription pricing shows that the standard subscription 2-day rate is $15 and the "professional diagnostic" 2-day rate is $55.

    In an ideal world, since J2534 is an API standard, you'd be able to get Techstream working with any J2534 adapter. (Well, any one with a Windows driver, since the Techstream software is built for Windows.) In a fallen world you can see (again on the TIS front page) that the Mongoose is the one Toyota sells and presumably tests with, so it may be the safest bet. If you google Mongoose J2534 the prices seem to fall in a $300 - $500 range.

    -Chap
     
  15. jhknight

    jhknight Junior Member

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    yea, goodnight! I just got quoted $2000.oo for the job! and all I believe it needs is the oring. (dealer = crooks) I'm either going to try to find someone to try to change the oring or trade the car in for something conventional. (got a quota to trade for $2500 , if they will take it in trade for 2500 and knowing about a brake fluid probllem I might just give it away because I can put the 2000 in for repairs and still probably not get 2500 out of it if I sell it myself. I thought maybe these little hybrids might be worth something as gas prices increase but apparently not. I don't know what to do.
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I am confused. Does repair of the "O" solve the problem or is the pump still broken? Does the pump resume proper operation after the "O" ring repair?

    Bob Wilson
     
  17. Avi's Advanced Automotive

    Avi's Advanced Automotive Independent hybrid repair shop

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    If you look at my post (#6) above you will see there are two ways to get the pump/motor portion. I wonder what the dealer would say if you asked about re-using the accumulator.

    You may want to look for and independent repair shop to replace it. If you would share your location we could maybe help you find one.

    I would think you could get more than $2500, if you decide not to keep it you may want to try selling it for more.
     
  18. Avi's Advanced Automotive

    Avi's Advanced Automotive Independent hybrid repair shop

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    It seems as though the electric motor portion of these pumps fails after being soaked with brake fluid. The one I replaced looked like the O-ring at the accumulator was leaking. If you look at the pictures Luscious posted, it looks like the solenoid block was leaking. Either way I wouldn't re-use a motor that had failed. the question is does the accumulator need to be replaced. Toyota sells these components as follows. The wiring, relays and solenoid block, the wiring, relays and solenoid block, and motor/pump, or the wiring, relays and solenoid block, motor/pump and accumulator. They do not sell the motor/pump or accumulator separately. The question is can the accumulator be re-used as it would cost $400 less.
     
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  19. jhknight

    jhknight Junior Member

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    Unknown, I just don't see why we need to replace the entire $1200 pump, why can't they just fix the leak?????? I want a second opinion and I don't trust the dealer to stop in the middle of disassembly and say "hey, this just needs a new O-ring", instead of just picking my pockets for the $2000....
     
  20. jhknight

    jhknight Junior Member

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    Problem is I live in the middle of nowhere and have yet to encounter a shop that knows anything about these hybrids. New Richland Minnesota. Generally I drive 90 miles out of the way to Mankato Toyota. I work in Owatonna and hope to find someone there who may have worked on these. The bottom line is I bought this car to save money on gas, I am not saving money with all the repairs that keep cropping up. And who would buy it with this looming $2000 butt job from the dealer?