July 16,640 Prius, down from 19,150 in June

Leaf is doing very badly in sales. Not sure what's going on.

Volt's blowing it away now. Not surprising that the PiP and Volt are beating the Leaf since they're eligible for CA green HOV stickers. No longer need to get a BEV/NGV to get (white) HOV stickers.

July Plug-In Electric Car Sales: Volt Steady, Leaf Lethargic (Again)
Nissan North America Sales Increase 16.2% In July -- FRANKLIN, Tenn., Aug. 1, 2012 /PRNewswire/ --

There's a running thread on MNL (last page at My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - July Plugin Sales : Leaf 395, Volt 1849, PIP 688, FFE ?) to discuss plugin sales.

 

volt has had a massive ad campaign around here, t.v., radio and print. maybe it's working? haven't seen anything on leaf or pip. then again, gm is advertising their best year ever, then giving cars away for 60 days free.

 

Well of COURSE the Volt sales numbers will remain high . . . . in part because of its bigger battery size, its bigger Fed tax break / (state incentives in many states), as well as the Fed's purchasing them as fleet vehicles. I mean really, with the Fed's owning such a huge chunk of pre-bankrupt GM's stock - what would ANY good company owner buy for its fleet vehicles . . . . . the (PiP) competition's ? Of course not. You'd buy your fleets from the company that you have the personal stake in. Not that any other country doesn't do the same thing. Still - the better thing of course is to get the citizenry to buy up all of your cars.

.

 

Why is the Volt so much more popular than the Prius Plug-in or the Nissan Leaf? I know there are the ads for it.

However, a couple of things. The Volt may have 30 miles on electric-only range (on full battery, slightly higher on some estimates), but when the gasoline engine comes on, then the Volt fares 37 mpg on PREMIUM gas. It has to run on premium gas.

The Prius Plug-in fares 11 miles on a full electric charge, however, it gets 50 mpg on hybrid-only mode. If it uses both electric and gas, it fares 95 mpg combined. (I do realize that the Volt is $535 cheaper than the Prius Plug-in.)

If I was to choose best for electric-only range, I would definitely choose the Nissan Leaf. It fares 100 miles per charge. Also, it is about $4,000 cheaper than the Volt after the tax-deduction.

What was Volt thinking when forcing the people to use Premium gas? Is it considered a "premium" car? It just seems odd in the hybrid market to have customers use premium gasoline.

 

I thought the Prius had high rankings by Consumer reports for Generation 2 Prii?

I read the report on Prius C ratings, and for whatever reason, they are not great fans of that vehicle.

 

Interesting....Both Nissan and Toyota are more reliable than Chevrolet anyways. If I was to go with an American car, I would more likely go with Ford. I have talked to quite a few Chevy owners with transmission problems on their cars. Other cars definitely have these issues, although it seems like Chevrolet's transmissions fail earlier generally (or they have other issues).

 

hill,
Prius has much higher fleet sales than volt. Many municipalities including mine have been buying them for a long time. We do not have any publicly purchased volts in my town, although chevy and ford have worked with the local utility. There were some bad reporters claiming that government sales were a big percentage of volt sales, that is simply not true. Out of government incentives, toyota has been one of the leaders in the past, and current US incentives are available for them. Toyota received the most government money out of any auto company in cash for clunkers. The prius phv does cost more because it is made in japan though, but that's economics. Toyota chose to manufacture it with Japanese labor, even though costs are higher than in america. There are rumors that they will build the next generation here, which would be good for america and toyota.

For dollars per mile though, volt seems like a better value. Let's hope the c-max and fusion energi expand the market.

 

Just to correct. The 2013 volt which just started selling gets 38 miles aer, and 98mpge. This may have hurt last months sales as its a slight improvement. The prius phv is less expensive than the volt. The volt has been selling longer, and kinks have been finally worked out of production. Toyota just started selling the phv, and we can expect it will take awhile for dealers to get used to selling them, and the national roll out. I wouldn't really compare sales figures until next summer.

If you use the same figures the leaf is 73 miles aer. It has experienced battery degradation in arizona. People expect a price drop next year when they are made in america. All this seems to be greatly hurting leaf sales.

They seemed unsure of what would happen to the gas if it sat around for months. Premium seems a sore point for some and not others. If you only fill your tank once a month its probably not a big deal. We may see volt 1.5 in a little over a year with an improved engine. It will be interesting to see if they go with premium. It seems a risk aversion strategy. Chevy did not want stories about stale gas.

 

Interesting, good things to know. I did not realize that 2013 Volt was out already. That's a good improvement then. (I believe the stats I put were of the 2012 version, just so you know.)

Interesting about the Nissan Leaf. That is definitely the main downside. Although it has the most electric-only range, most drivers likely need a second vehicle which can travel more than 73 miles without seeing an electric-charge station.

How reliable are the Volts? I am just curious, as I have not heard data leading one way or the other. And now that makes more sense of why they started with premium gasoline. They have not had the Volts on the market for long, so starting safe seemed the way to go.

 

How is the Volt a better value? Is it lower cost over time?

I see what you are saying about Cash for Clunkers. So they must have received the most revenue by the program due to selling more vehicles. Did this have something to do with having the Prius or is there another reason?

I know Chevrolet received government assistance by the US Auto Industry Bailout, although that is definitely separate assistance from Cash for Clunkers.

 

ok you must be thinking non-PiP fleet sales- right? Because the PiPe hasn't been out for a long time. I was talking fleet sales of PHEV's.


SGH-I717R ? 2

 

I thought I would just update it. It was only a minor improvement. Chevy made the battery slightly higher capacity and the electrics a little more efficient. It went from 35miles @ 94 mpge to 38 miles @ 98 mpge. They also added a hold button, so the driver can switch from EV to hybrid mode to save battery for later in the trip. That should allow most to just use the engine on the highway and get closer to 40 mpg in charge sustain - but still with premium gas.

There also are other factors, but it appears at least for now PHEVs will sell better than BEVs. Improved batteries may change that in the future.

Its hard to say how reliable they will be in the future, as they have only been selling for a year and a half. They are fine now. The lease rate seems like a good deal for people worried about future

I'm sure the prius helped a lot, as people think of toyota when they think efficient. Toyota sold lots of camries and corrolas. But when Japan has done there cash for clunkers they set rules to hurt foreign cars. The US rules definitely are more fair then foreign countries when it comes to helping the auto industry. Toyota also got government money for opening plants in mississippi and texas but only seemed to move jobs from california. There is a great deal of corporate welfare to auto companies, foreign and domestic.

Defitinitely, GM and Chrysler were bailed out and the government won't get the money back.

The plug-in and battery subsidies represent a level playing field though. Toyota is welcome to take as much money as gm or nissan. It does not discriminate against foreign companies. The Pngv did discriminate and only gave to the us companies, and this appears to be one reason it was a failure.

 

I am talking about government purchases of prii. Fleet sales of plug-ins are very very small comparatively. I believe there is a congressman - mike kelly - you know the one that voted to default on the debt, continue oil subsidies. He also penned a bill to try to kill plug ins. He started going on the talk shows talking about huge government purchases. They simply haven't happened yet, although it might be a good thing if the government bought more plug-ins than gas guzzlers. When kelly was saying the government was buying all the volts, forbes reported that in their best month

Most of the fleet orders weren't even to the government. Follow the money. Its a made up story, from someone with strong motivation. There are other operatives trying to hurt plug

I certainly like the my city utility encourages their employees take an efficient prius on long trips.

It appears the government might have purchased as many as 200 volts.

 

government employees and plug in cars are like oil and water.

 

I am thinking GE's CEO J. Immelt mandated Volt purchases for GE staff cars but not sure if this shows up as individual or fleet purchases.

Well I heard the guy Mike Kelly on TV and thought he made good sense. But the thing is Congress unilaterally committed to the EV/PHV rebates as part of the economic recovery package so there was no debate for Mike Kelly to give his opinion, I cannot see changing it now.

 

lol... July is slower month than June and it has 3 selling days less...

Prius sales are up 92% for the year.

 

Prius PHV is not sold in all 50 states yet (just 13). EPA just added it's carbon footprint data. The "greeness" of Prius PHV is not well-known to the public. Many people assumes that the more electric miles, the greener.

Prius PHV (midsize) is as green as Focus BEV (compact EV), greener than the Leaf (midsize as well) but without the charging time and range limitation.

Prius PHV is greener than the Volt (compact) despite a big EV range and interior size differences.

i-MiEV (subcompact) EV is the only car that is greener than Prius PHV. Tesla Model S looks great being classified as a Large car by EPA.

 

The Volt doesn't have to burn premium, but will have slightly lower power output and fuel economy on regular. The difference in fuel economy between premium and regular will most likely work out to about the same price per mile in fuel. That seems to be the rule with modern, premium fueled engines. The fuel costs more, but the engine is more efficient running at higher compressions, so the costs even out in the end.

People are just penny wise, pound foolish when it comes to gas prices and fuel economy. Most do actually track their fuel economy over time. Which makes looking at it this way easier. Ten gallons of premium will cost $1 to $2 more than regular. It will add up over time, but the cost difference for a weekly fill up can easily be covered by skipping Starbucks once a week. If a person did this, they probably wouldn't notice that they might have a little cash saved at the end of the year do to the slightly better fuel.

For a plug in like the Volt, the weekly fill up will be stretched out to monthly or even longer. Cost difference in fuel has less and less impact.

Having seen people idle in line rather than cross the intersection to an empty station with 1 cent more expensive gas, I have no hope that people will change their views of premium gas.

But isn't that using 2009 data for the grid mix? We now know that the portion of coal is dropping faster than expected. So those numbers aren't showing what the cars emit now. As I have pointed out in the past, an EV can get greener as the grid does. A non plug in won't. It's stuck at where it was, if not worse when it came off the line.

The more EV miles of a PHV, the more it benefits from grid improvements. The Prius PHV won't see much improvement with the current grid mix because of its low EV miles.