Ford brings hybrid, EV work in-house to beat Toyota

The "Toyota is less to replace the battery" argument is bogus as warranty on the batteries is 100K plus miles.

Volt's a much better partial EV vehicle than Prius, 20 mile EV range for 10. Prius next generation partial EV might have Volt or Ford's mileage but until then, the much higher EV range on Volt and Ford are the winners. And GM and Ford beat Prius on interior and extras. Auto/on/off headlights, power seats, stuff like that.

If I like the test ride in the Ford Energi and I can rig up a "temporary" home charger, 20A/120V, 300 ft. "extension cord" (electrician says no problem) and I can charge at work, that will give me 40EV/96 total miles. Basically cut my gasoline usage to 56 miles at 48 mpg vs. Prius 75 miles at 50 mpg.

1.16 gallons for Ford
1.56 gallons for Prius Plug In.

I make purchase decisions to cut oil use, cut pollution and promote US jobs and industry (why I purchased by hybrid Escape).

Energi is going to let me cut my oil use by 65% over my 2012 Prius and give Ford a boost for its US made Energi. Technology being like politics where early money is worth more than late money.

 

Yeah, and we all know that the car is only good for 50k miles.

 

I think SageBrush was concerned about out of warranty replacement, but that might just be my Gaijin Troll interpretation.

 

My Prius is approaching 100K miles, with teenager abuse and a daughter who can't seem to find time for oil changes. Why do you think it is only good for 50K miles?

BTW, I thought you were through with this discussion?

 

Definitely Gaijin issue <grin>. I hadn't even considered a plug-in EV when I was upgrading the car. Then electrician told me no big deal running a 300 foot "temp" line from house to the parking lot. Otherwise I would have gotten the Volt at the get go.

With Ford Energi with next generation US made EV, might do an early upgrade vs. waiting for 2015, my original plan.

 

300 feet is a pretty long haul for a 120V "temporary" line. I'm not an electrician but it seems to me that you would be better served with a 240V line using the same three conductors except configured as HOT-HOT-GROUND rather than HOT-NEUTRAL-GROUND. You would get faster charging using the same amperage and the onboard chargers are a bit more effecient at 240V versus 120V.

Also, It seems you have the Volt pegged at 20 miles of EV range rather than 38. Is the Energi targeting 20?

 

You're using the EPA numbers for the 2012 Volt. The 2013 Volt, which is already in production and being delivered to customers, is rated as 250 grams per mile (not 260) by EPA for Texas average grid power.

Also, EPA is using eGRID2010 in their carbon dioxide calculator but eGRID2012 was just released and shows that Texas grid power is now 5-6% lower in CO2 emissions. It's been on a downward trend which will likely continue as they bring on more renewable sources.

That brings Volt emissions on Texas grid down to 235-240 grams per mile.

EPA assumes 12.9 kWhs per charge for my 2011 Volt but I've noticed that OnStar and ChargePoint records both indicate a full charge using 240V takes between 11.8 and 12.5 with an average of around 12.25 kWh. That's enough lower to adjust the EPA CO2 emissions down to the 50 mpg Prius level on Texas grid.

Likewise, he said he was getting 157 mpg which means he's likely using less than the EPA's assumed 36% gasoline rate. At the Texas emissions levels, using less gasoline and more electricity means his actual CO2 emissions would be lower than the EPA estimated rate. That would also bring his emissions rate down to either about the same or lower than a gas-only Prius.

Except that he said he's paying for wind power. So, his emissions are pretty much the EPA tailpipe-only rate of 81 grams per mile in a Volt (versus 133 grams per mile in a plugin Prius). That means his emissions are nearly 1/3 of a gas-only Prius at 36% gasoline miles and even less at 157 mpg.

 

you're kidding right? Onstar doesn't account for the appx 10% loss /charging from grid power to what ultimately gets stuffed into the battery. Maybe you should buy a kwh meter - then you can see for yourself. Onstar is okay if you lock your keys in the car. But it aint no clamp on power meter.

SGH-I717R ? 2

 

ChargePoint is the kwh meter. Onstar is the battery SOC correlation point.

Maybe we should add in the CO2 emissions when transporting the gasoline to the fueling stations.

 

I see an average 12.25 kWh or so from my ChargePoint records at public charging stations. I don't have a TED meter at home (yet) but people who do have reported numbers well under the EPA 12.9 kWh figure. I don't know where EPA got that number and whether it reflects their measurement of charging at 120V, 240V (208V?) or a blend. Charging at 240V is more efficient than 120V.

 

That is what I would do. I had only mentioned the 120V line to the electrician and he said he could rig it up easily and account for the voltage drop of the long line. The 240v line would not need to be as large to compensate for the voltage drop and cost would be less and charging more efficient.

That is true. I didn't realize they had raised the Volt's EV range in 2013. I should wait for 2014 and see if Volt adds power seats and other upgrades.

0.60 gallons for Volt
1.16 gallons for Ford Energi
1.56 gallons for Prius Plug In

 

Just remember that in 2015 we get the Mr Fusion Home Energy Reactor for the DeLorean.

DeLorean time machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Or better yet the Volvo V60 Diesel/AWD/EV/Hybrid at 129 mpg now on the road in Europe.

 

I would love a diesel PHEV. I probably wouldn't have to visit another public fuel station again. I get bio-diesel delivered to my home about once a quarter for the ranch equipment.

BioWillie — Biodiesel Made in America. Stayed in America.

 

Bio-Diesel might be tricky in something like the Volvo V60 or, I'd guess, in any of the modern filtered, urea system auto Diesels. Might work but I wonder if the different formulation would throw off all the anti-pollution equipment.


Volvo V60 D6 Plug-in Hybrid: Spec

- Engine: Automatic D5 2.4-litre diesel, 147lb ft electric
- Power (bhp): 215 diesel, 70 electric (215 + 70 combined)
- 0-62mph: 6.2sec
- Top speed: 142mph (74mph electric only)
- Fuel efficiency: 149mpg (optimum)
- CO2 emissions: 49g/km (Hybrid mode)
- 32 Mile EV range

 

Bio-diesel is only recommended in low percentages for the modern diesels 'cause it can clog the particulate filter. Maufacturers are only okaying 5-10%.

 

These are according to the European NEDC test cycle. The Volvo number quoted above is in UK gallons. The US gallon estimate is 124 mpg (1.9l/100km).

For comparison....

Chevrolet Volt Plug-in Hybrid: Spec

- Fuel efficiency: 196 mpg (US), 1.2l/100km
- CO2 emissions: 27g/km (Hybrid mode)
- 52 Mile EV range (83km)

Under the NEDC combined and weight gas/electric test cycle, the plugin battery gets depleted before the engine kicks in so larger EV range causes the estimated mpg to go up. The NEDC gas-only estimate is around 47 mpg (US). I don't know what the V60 diesel-only mpg is.

 

Actually onstar DOES account for it (probably using a fixed formula). They know if you are charging via 110 or 240 so can add an expected loss rate. I check with a kill-a-watt and it only .1kWh high (I measured 12.9, it said 13 -- and FYI the loss is 15-20%, not 10%. Biggest issue with official onstar is that myvolt.com comes and goes.. voltstats.net provides better data service (still using onstar data), but voltstats just provides battery state. I used that to estimate my kWh usage now. I calibrated and validated with a kill-a-watt.

 

It looks like the national grid has dropped even further in direct carbon emissions since eGRID2012 (which relies on 2009 emissions data).

"In 2005, coal was used to produce about half of all the electricity generated in the U.S. The Energy Information Agency said that fell to 34 percent in March, the lowest level since it began keeping records nearly 40 years ago."

AP IMPACT: CO2 emissions in US drop to 20-year low - SFGate

 

interesting then - I stand corrected. I thought I'd read otherwise - do you have a link? Or are you basing the knowledge strictly off observation of your meter. I'm just saying. - I have noticed a huge efficiency change, in the swings between hot and cold weather for instance. For example - on extremely hot summer days doesn't the volt's bms divert incoming charge to run the battery cooling system. Seems like that would be a mighty fancy algorithm.

SGH-I717R ? 2