Declining EV every day after full charge??

right, but if they are consistantly seeing 7 mile estimated ev range after charging, they're probably only getting around 7 miles actual ev driving. doesn't mean the car won't go 14 with a different driver, route or both.

 

Hi John1701a,
thanks for the explanation. but today mine started off at 10.9 (after full charge) and I recorded my trip meter anytime while in EV mode. The actual EV only mileage was pretty accurate. to 10.9 (11.5) to be exact. The only reason it gave me a bit more was because from work on the surface streets I use EV, then switch to HV on the freeway, then getting off the freeway go back to EV and while on the freeway if I don't stomp on it the EV range will charge minimally, giving a bit more than the 10.9. So even though you say you still get full capacity regardless of what is displayed, it doesn't appear so. I wish it would just give you battery capacity instead. As you have read, other people are just as confused by it displaying this EV distance instead. Here is what Toyota has in their database:

EV Distance and HV Battery Performance Concerns USA
2012 Prius PHV
Condition:
Some Prius PHV customers may notice a change in the displayed EV Distance or have a concern about the HV Battery performance based on this value.
Recommendations:
This may be a normal condition as a result of the following:
1. When driving in "EV Mode", the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) calculates the vehicle's "SOC per mile" using the difference in the HV Battery State of Charge (SOC) over the trip, and the distance traveled. A rolling average of this value is calculated and applied to the displayed EV Distance to more accurately estimate the vehicle's potential range in "EV Mode". As the vehicle is driven, the displayed range will be updated and may change based on the customer's driving style and conditions, similar to variations in MPG.

2. The EV Distance will automatically decrease by 11% when A/C is ON and HVAC fan is operating. Turning OFF the A/C or HVAC fan will restore the displayed distance to the previous value.

The EV Distance will be reset to the default value when 12V battery power is removed from the PCM.

 

So for example, if

So for example if I were to have charged it at work and it reads 10.9, and let's say I don't do the usual driving pattern going home and instead I go shopping around my work area locally and use all the EV distance. I would then definitely get 10.9 or less miles of EV driving. So for the guy that said his read "EV distance: 14 miles) if he followed me around in his PiP mine would kick into HV mode and use gas a few miles before his did. Does that seem right?

 

That would only be the case if your battery was defective or does not have the same capacity as another PiP. Although it is a possibility you have a bad battery, I havent heard any conclusive proof that anyone has a bad battery and I doubt yours is defective.

If we assume the batteries Toyota puts in the PiP is all pretty close in capacity, and your ESTIMATE said 10.9 on a full charge and another PiP owner had an estimate of 14 EV miles, and you guys drove around together, using the same "level" of acceleration, then both cars should run out of EV range at around the same time.

That explanation that Toyota gives is basically just saying the EV range is an estimate based on the change in the batteries SoC (state of charge) over a given traveled distance. So for example, if you have a lead foot, your EV range estimate would be low (or lower). But if you were to take a leisurely drive, making minimal stops, limiting your maximum speeds, flat terrain, etc etc, then the low EV estimate would be wrong and you would be able to get much more EV range.

I realize many have trouble grasping the concept since we're talking "EV". However, the same principle applies for any gas-consuming vehicle that has a "distance to empty" or "driving range" based on the amount of gas you have in the tank. If you beat on the car, drag race it at every light, etc, the next time you fill up the car, the "distance to empty" would read much lower than before. But that does not mean all of a sudden the car is getting bad gas mileage. Its simply an ESTIMATE of how many miles you can expect from the gas you have in the tank BASED ON PRIOR DRIVING PATTERNS.

 

Full capacity means kWh of electricity, not miles of travel. Battery capacity is translated to distance.

For most people, that works out fine. You are having difficulty accepting that though, despite understanding the difference & intent.

I have both come short of the estimate and exceeded, by several miles. The circumstances of the trip made the reason obvious. I highly suspect you'll see that too over time. Seek out driving situations quite different from what you label as typical... speed, traffic, terrain, temperature. Watch what happens.

Then remind yourself of purpose. What is your MPG average?

 

Did a test yesterday.....My EV range has always been 12.9. I typically drive 50mph on my route til EV is gone and typically got 13miles range. So the car knows my driving habit.

So i changed my route, to a road that i could drive slower, and is actually 2 miles further round trip....I went Much slower avg speed 32mph, and even though my EV range started out as the same 12.9, I ended up driving 17.2 miles before I was out of EV.

So the car will go much further then the "initial predicted range" IF you reduce speed,acceleration,AC, ect ect ect...

This is where google maps, taking a slower route even though it might be slightly further can help....going 35mph VS 55 is a huge savings of battery. But you cant be in a hurry! lol

Dan

 

Ok starting to get it... it's just psychological for some then to see the smaller number after they put their charging cable back in their car and the screen confirms that a full charge took place, then you start driving down the street (very gently on the pedal) and your EV distance already says 8.6 miles. (on nothing but flat streets.) If I hop on the freeway inbetween at some point, then I get more as it charges it up a bit, or if I'm able to cruise on surface streets without hitting to many lights, you can coast and sustain EV distance.

Hey Tracksyde I didn't get your answer as to whether you lowered your PiP or not. So far there is no kit. So are the springs and struts in the rear the same sizes as the ZVW30 ? Because the part numbers are different than the regular ZVW30 Prius in the rear. Please let me know. I know you said use TEIN coilovers, if I knew for sure that the actual physical parts will fit thenI would do that. But Toyota parts department can't say yes or no because they do not know. Thanks.

 

Yes difficult to accept. When I bought it the salesperson told me it starts off at 11.9 always (LOL - I found out he went to Prius Plug-In training AFTER the sale of mine.) So in my mind I thought it was like charging our smartphones where on a full charge it says 100% right? And yes in certain conditions (weak signal, using lots of apps, playing music, being on the internet etc...) that 100% will not last as long as other times you use it or you're in a strong signal area. But at least when you charge your smartphone fully, it says 100%, not 90%, not 88%.
Thanks for your help in understanding this though.
And my MPG has been 60-62. I can't seem to get higher than that. Commute is fairly flat from surface streets, to the 405, to surface streets. Approximately 35 miles one way.

 

John,
I've been ill so I haven't been out with my PiP or my Audi vehicles for that matter. So Anyway I had a doctor's appointment 14 miles away. Normally I would take surface streets to the freeway which is a lot faster. So anyway, I took only surface streets (all flat surface streets in Orange County CA) The car had been sitting for a few days without charge so I plan a full charge just before leaving to the appointment and verified the screen showed me a full charge. The starting EV estimate was 10.8 miles. I drove around light on the pedal, slow on the take off (impatient people drove around me at times) and coasted when ever possible to reserve EV range keeping it on the profile car graphic that shows the EV charge / usage flow. The actual EV range I got before being booted into HV mode was 10.3 miles. It was hot outside, maybe this had something to do with it? But as gentle as I was driving it is still disappointing.

 

I was having the same EV miles too (10.3) then I quit charging my PIP in the middle of the afternoon (when it's hot) I now charge my PIP at night and getting a consistent 11.8 EV

 

Ohhhh ok priuskitty thanks for the advice - I am definitely going to try that. People keep telling me it's based on past driving, average etc.... But if that is so, I have yet to see it vary going UP. Mine is always going down. From the beginning (purchased about 4 weeks ago brand new) : EV showed 13.4, then 11.9, 11.5, 11.3, 11.0, 10.9, now recently 10.8 but I have yet to see it go UP then down, then UP (It's only been going down as if my driving patterns get worse and worse?) I don't think so, I've purposely driven more conservatively just so I can see if it will ever go up and it has not. And I am told that the initial number you see on the screen is an estimate only but when noting the actual "start" mileage on my trip meter and then noting it when it kicks into HV mode it's only around 10 miles. I felt like part of the reason is because I at first did not follow the manual in how it says to use the time charging is the best way to sustain total capacity. Suppose it's hot and I would like to charge up and run close by errands... would you suggest just driving in HV or would you charge up in the heat, and then go run your errands?

 

Are you using your A/C a lot?

 

Is the PiP in EV mode like the Gen3 where coasting is actually getting a little regen? If so, make sure you are gliding not coasting.

 

you are confused between ev range estimate and actual ev range driven. past performance does not affect future driving range, only the estimated range the car shows you after you finish charging. are you checking your screen for full charge by looking for 'charge complete' or looking at battery icon? make sure the charge light is off inside the charger door before you unplug. as far as heat is concerned, it's a/c use that's going to drain your battery, not charging in the heat. unless were talking 100+ temps. if your driving flat streets at 20-30 mph with only a few stops and zero to minimal a/c, you should get 14-16 miles of ev before hv kicks in. if you have a lot of stop lites/signs, that will eat up charge.

 

yes, pip is the same. regen vs glide are controlled by throttle pressure.

 

Bisco, I am talking about 100+ temps, my scanguage says my inside air temp is above 100F ( probably due to the fact my car is parked in the sunlight) even when I go to my ChargePoint station in the afternoon the inside air is still 100F+ I always check to see if my charge indicator light on the charger door is off before getting into my car to check EV. Also when I start the car I get the message "charge complete" My trip odo actual EV range is typically 13.5 miles, but I seldom let the EV miles deplete to .9 or so, it's sometimes 3.2 or 5.0 before I recharge. I never use my A/C, have all my windows down.

 

i know you do p/k, i was advising moviebizman. you've got it down.

 

me too! cept I tol u instead.

 

Hi Bisco,
No I never remove it before the orange light goes out inside the charge door... yes that's what I get "Charge Complete." and no it's not been over 100 degrees in our current climate in SoCal. Yes I realize stop lights kill your EV. I did have a few. And no I had no A/C on (climate control) and no sound system, nav screen... I left the screen on the blue screen that says Audio System Off. But I did not drive at 30 mph. I slowly, slowly, slowly reached 35 to 45 mph each time. Oh so 10.3 is actually not too bad given my conditions ?
And no I am not confused by EV estimate and EV range. However, the estimate displayed after a full charge does seem to affect my actual range. Because driving the same way when the car had only a few miles on it... I calculated about 11.5 to 12.5 miles of ACTUAL EV driving. And actually back then, I stepped on it harder and got more according to the trip meter when EV turned off (depleted.)
So just to be clear... to get an average of 12 to 13 miles of EV driving on flat roads... one should keep speed at 30 mph or below?
Thanks!

 

to answer your last question first, yes. my average speed when i get 15-17 miles is in the low 20's, even tho my trip includes 6 miles arounf 40 and 4 miles around 50. it's not completely flat around here, i have about a 100' elevation change on my commute. i think you should be able to get more than 11-12, but i'm not sure what's holding you back.
as far as ev range estimate is concerned, your past ev history affects the estimate, but the estimate does not affect anything. it's just using your history to try and give you a feel for how far you will be able to drive.