Chevy stops Volt production (temporarily ...)

USB, you are right about the Prius having the largest interior volume of both plugin and non-plugin hybrid. The Prius is midsized car while the Volt is a compact. (source: DOE). It will be interesting when the Ford C-MAX Energi arrives to see how it performs.

DBCassidy

 

I do remember Akerson saying 2012 would see 45,000 Volt sales. OOPS, that had to be scaled back - the Volt is not selling as planned. If the original sales number is close to being met, or EXCEEDED, the the plant would be running with no production stoppage. Also the production facilities for the Volt would be maximized on production of the Volt. Again that is not happening. Instead production of the Impala is being included at the Volt plant.

What is not forthcoming is Government Motors stratergy to increase consumer demand for the Volt.

DBCassidy

 

You are correct!!! I wonder how the Chevy dealers overall feel about the Volt now? Might they be enthusastic, mixed feelings, or dread - they can't move the car off their lots fast enough?

DBCassidy

 

I, for one, hope that Chevy didn't expect the market for the Volt to develope on its' own without assistance from corporate. If that is (was) the stratergy, then I think it is time for them to revisit it and come up with alternate plans to move more product.

DBCassidy

 

They, Government Motors really, really needs to get in touch with reality and the mainstream consumers on what THEY,the consumers really want in the Volt. Affordability issues is going to sink the Volt unless the product can be presented to consumers so the Volt can fit in their budgets.

DBCassidy

 

Then you bought the wrong car. The Leaf would have givened you more battery capacity and eliminate gas consumption altogether. This choice would allow you not to feel guilty about using gas and sleep better at night.

A real win / win situation.

DBCassidy

 

Nope, they haven't.

ProPublica (09/12/12) states 27.1 billion is still owed by Government Motors.

DBCassidy

 

Well they are wrong. Try posting a link next time, and I will debunk it.

GM got both a loan and money for equity. The loan has been paid off. Some of the equity has been sold. The equity remaining is worth less than the money the US government paid for it. IMHO all of the equity should have been sold, even at a loss to get the government out of the car business, but the government is speculating gm stock will go up. The government gave the money to the banks and auto companies at unfavorable terms for the government. Its too late to renegotiate now. The equity is a little over $14B underwater, and gm needs to get to $53 for the government to break even.

Now if those government boys had bought apple stock instead of gm they would be doing much better.

 

Incorrect, I do require one of our cars to be capable of 2-5 200-400 mile plus round trips. The Leaf unfortunately can't make that.
The Volt fit our needs better than any other car on the market at the time.

 

Mission Accomplished ?

The green movement is different things to different folks. It would have been difficult for Toyota to promote a domestic fuel campaign, being a non-domestic manufacturer. Btw, whatever happened to having the Prius built in the US?

Hijacking is what marketing agencies do. Didn't Toyota hijack the domestic green movement, successfully, when they introduced the Prius? I seem to remember things like 50+mpg TDIs being the "green machines" at the time, running recycled bio-diesel.

 

Your revision of history, making up of definitions to suit your agenda is wearying thin.

The 40K projected was last years estimate. On Jan 8 2012, Ackerson said they would align production with sales and GM has not produced a sales estimate since. See GM’s Akerson Says He Will Align Volt Production to Sales Demand - Businessweek
Incase you forget that was also back in the battery-fire controversy, and ackerson said there were more variables in the equation.


I will agree that back in 2008, before the market crash, GM made projections of 10K for year one, and 45K+15K for year two. But they are not the only automaker or model to readjust their goals since pre-crash. Every car maker did, including Toyota.


Can you provide a source that says 60K is the minimum of what it takes to be "mainstream".

Year to date, the volt is above the median sales by car model. So by your definition the majority of car models sold are not mainstream. The Volt is outselling the Lexus CT200h, BMW 7 series, BMW 1 series, Nissana Aramda Nissian xterra, Nissaan quest, chevy corvette, honda ridgeline, Lincoln MKS, Audi A5, A6 A7 A8, Kia Sodona, Mitsu Galant, lancer, Outlanter, Mazda miatia, Toyota Soquia, Toyota land Cruzer, every model Infiniti makes except the G, every porsche model evey Jag model, every Suziki model, just to name a few. Guess none of them are mainstream cars or brands.



While you are at it can you define what makes are car "middle-market".. you pushed for others to define it but refuse to give your definition and show why the first gen Prius was aimed at middle market and the Volt is not. Also where it was stated this generation volt would become a popular middle-market vehicle.. because I don't recall that assertion.

You have become just as bad as the anti-hybrid anti-prius folks in the early 2000's. Blowing hard with nothing behind your statements. If you cannot provide definitions and supporting arguments, then at least admit you are wrong. If you just keep make up stuff with no supporting documentation and we'll all take that as an admission that you are just a hypocrite with no serious facts/data to support your revisionist history volt bashing.

 

No matter how many times I answer the question, it keeps getting asked. The reason why is simple. The answer wasn't liked and raising doubt is an effective way to prevent conclusions from being drawn.

That report about plug-in electric vehicles just published highlights the painfully slow progress anticipated for them. Fortunately, Toyota took the priority of affordability very serious, designing a plug-in system that would significantly improve efficiency without requiring a large battery-pack. That targets it squarely at mainstream consumers, those who have considered the regular Prius but would like more from the system.

The simplicity of a full recharge from an ordinary household outlet in just 2.5 hours and getting a big MPG boost regardless of driving is compelling. The fact that the system can be augmented even further simply by increasing battery-capacity makes it a competitive platform. Unfortunately, that's not what GM delivered. They're trapped with an inflexible design and the consequenses are becoming apparent.

 

As for "supporting documentation", the blogs heavily document what was said and believed at the time. They also point out changes since then.

That's why stating goals continue to be so important.

What is Volt attempting to achieve now?

There is business need and regulations to fulfill. There's competition too.

 

If you've answered I've not found it.. and yesterday before I called you on it, I read 50+ posts where you used the term middle-market and still did not find any that resembles a formal definition. There is exactly one post by you with the term middle-market and "definition" , which is here, where you challenge us to define it. Since then I've been asking for your formal definition and you've avoided it. If you've defined it some place I've not been able to find it, please provide a link. If you've done it many times that should be easy for you.

How do we know what "that report" is supposed to mean? Do you mean the recent Pike research report ?
» Though Falling Short of U.S. Targets, Sales of Plug-in Electric Vehicles Will Grow Strongly through 2020 Pike Research

If you think market growth at 38% faster than the rate of growth of hybrids is painfully slow progress, then okay, that's your definition of slow. (Prius was launched in 2000 and did no reach 1 millon US sales until 2011. PHEVs launched 2010 and pike is projecting 1millon sales by 2018, only 8 years vs 11).

I agree PHV is aimed squarely at the Prius faithful, and in my view is aimed mostly at the Toyota near-term profit line. Nothing wrong with that.. but don't confuse aiming to exploit brand loyalty to increase profit, with being better or being more efficient.

Yes, the PHV is the cheapest PHEV on the market. And for those buying to get the cali HOV lane that is a strong reason to go with it. They want the minimal investment to save them time. HOV access was a major selling point for the Gen II prius, and its good to give people a low-cost alternative for that. That does not make it "mainstream", just one niche element.

But other people are willing to pay a premium to reduce gas consumption. So what the "value" added in each design for those people. Using median performance on the PC spreadsheet stats for the PiP (80mpg), and voltstats (175mpg)

A PiP is 2K net more than a prius and takes one from 50 to 80mpg overall, or $66 per median MPG gained.

A Volt is 2K net more than a PiP and takes one from 80MPG to 175MPG, or $21 per median MPG gained over the PiP.

A volt is 4K net more than similarly equiped Prius and takes one from 50MPG to 175MPG, or $32 per median MPG gained over the Prius.

So for anyone who looks into the PHEV premium, he gain of MPG per dollar is better for the volt.

The PHV is a good car for those that want cheapest HOV access, don't drive much (or who drive > 100miles between charges), and a good car for the prius faithful. That's not aimed at the mainstream, its aimed to exploit the brand loyalty.

The time to a ful recharge is a red herring. Its like saying a VW gets better total range than a prius because they have larger gas tank. What matters is how many miles are added per unit time of refueling, for which the PHV is no faster than any other PHEV on the market.

Any PHEV can could, logically, be sold with varying battery packs, but so far only Tesla can make the claim they can actually do it. Can you point to the toyota articles that describe plans for an extensible battery system?

 

Your vagueness and evasiveness is telling. You cannot provide answers so you just tossing out the same old questions/complaints.

What "supporting documentation" are you referring to? Supporting what conclusion/definitions/evaluations? There is more uninformed bias volt bashing here than there is fact. Saying it often does not make it true. The blog is filled with individuals opinions with occasional links to external sources. If you want to make a point, pick one and make it.


As I've said before.. if you want GMs goals you'll have to ask GM. We are not in a position to meaningful answer that questions, just as you are not in a position to say what is Toyota's aims.

 

For that to be the case, I'd have to be against plug-in vehicles entirely, just as those opposing hybrids were against any use of battery & motor.

The proper comparison is being just like those who opposed Two-Mode, seeing it as an expensive approach without the ability to reach a wide audience quickly. And sure enough, that's exactly what became of it.

I see the market for plug-in hybrids being embraced soon, not having to wait for a next generation design or being dependent on tax-credits. I also own one already, with lots of real-world data to back my statements.

 

No, to be a hypocrite does mean you need need to be against all PHEVs. My comment is your attacks on the Volt lack of supporting evidence for your claims. In the early prius days you were fighting such arguments and were very vocal about it. Now you are using the same approach of sling FUD without much evidence and poor analogies. I consider that hypocritical -- you are doing exactly the same things you accused your attackers of doing. You make vague criticisms and proclaim pending failure and still you refuse to give your definitions, cite sources or use "your data" in a meaningful way. You make vague assertions, irrelevant comparisons and incorrectly revise or misquote history. You and the arguments you have put forth have already been discredited. You have not provided the definitions you demand of others, but instead say its somewere in the blogosphere. Well, I've read a lot and have a good memory (and good search skills)..

Let me remind you of your personal log from 12/22/2003

So how are you helping electric propulsion along with respect to say the Volt? Instead of being positive or helpful, you are attacking. Instead of using your knowledge and experience to help people understand what is the best choice for them, or helping others monitor their progress, you bash the volt with your own brand of FUD. Even within this thread (getting close to being back to topic), you toss out FUD trying to say this is the same as two-mode and proclaming pending doom. How is that helpful? How is that not "fighting those trying to help"?
You say you support electrification, and want to stamp out FUD, then you attack GM's efforts with your own style of FUD. To me, that is being hypocritical.

 

Yes, two-mode didn't pan out, but did sales for all the two-mode equipped trucks and SUVs exceed the Volt's sales, or is it the other way around?

It isn't selling at Prius levels. So, what? It is still a young model. The first Prius and Insight didn't sell at such high numbers either. They were both pricey for their time too. And by their market share, no hybrid has reached a wide audience. I know someone who wants a hybrid, but after driving a Prius for week, decided it wasn't the car for them. More hybrid options increases the chance of someone buying one over a traditional car.

 

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No you just need to be vocal spreading misinformation. You seem quite vocal, and you seem to be spinning quite hard in the face of facts. You keep changing definitions, or demanding them of others, and revising history.

The problem with two mode is just that it is too expensive for the market. Its not a bad thing or something to opose. You can say that and move on. Do you think phevs are simply too expensive for the market? If that is the case you can just say that, instead of spreading all this FUD. Volt is selling much better than two-mode, and prius phv seems just as expensive. You should be honest in your discussion.

Well where is your evidence for that? The prius was dependant on government money to get started, and the prius phv is dependant on government money. Have you returned the prius phv subsidies to the US and Japanese governments? The evidence is that these phevs would sell less without the subsidies, and that battery prices are dropping. Do you have evidence that the prius phv would sell better if the government removed the subsidy? The prius liftback reduced costs because of volume allowed for the subsidy and now can be sold at a profit. It still is subsidized heavily in Japan.

Why should the volt be different? Do you only support imported cars? I find toyota has acted badly by canceling the plan to build prii in north america. This puts them at a cost disadvantage, and may be why they are snubbing most states with the phv. They can correct this and said they might with the next generation, but the US government should not change policy to change tax credit rules to help toyota continue making cars in Japan. Japan certainly does not play fairly with american made cars.

 

Continued disregard for production cost & consumer need.

We're done.