Gas in californina

Escondido this morning. wondering where they found all that $4.65 a gallon gas at?



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With about 75% of federal lands and much offshore areas off-limits to new drilling, that's just not true it won't help relieve high gas prices . It's not the whole answer but we should exploit whatever reserves we have as responsibly as possible, ALONG with cost-effective green technology. Eco-extremist rhetoric like yours won't win the minds of most Americans more concerned with how much gasoline costs than if an occasional drop is spilled in a remote to them drilling site. People are struggling to put food on the table and frankly, hardly all of them are best served by hybrids and you can't or should try to force them into cars that don't serve their needs. You want to dictate to all those people how they should live and that's at odds with this country being about free choice. Sure, cars can and should be made incrementally more efficient but you can't ignore the need for more oil to reduce dependence on foreign sources. And Obama talks out of both sides of his mouth, crowing that U.S. oil production is up but not mentioning most of that increase is from the boom on private lands. And while he doesn't want to drill here, he hands Brazil a couple billion to drill off their shores. So why is it better that Brazil's beaches may get fouled with oil than ours might? Sounds like a "not in my backyard" mentality. And with that practice, Brazilians, not Americans, get those oil industry jobs after so many U.S. workers were laid off by the offshore drilling shutdown in the wake of Deepwater Horizon. Yes, BP deserved to be nailed to the wall for that big mess but you don't shutter an entire industry over it, either. The U.S. has big reserves of untapped oil that may not fully get us off foreign sources but will surely help. By all means, pursue the green sources wherever cost effective but you can't overly restrict U.S. oil production when our population and energy needs continue to grow. You don't let them drill with abandon like the old days; there needs to be strict government oversight but tightening it to this extent threatens to send the country into the poorhouse; we can't afford too sky-high energy prices. And if we produce more oil, it helps lower prices worldwide, helping everyone out.

 

Jeff, I dont think more drilling is the answer. we simply need to slow our consumption and there seems to be nothing that works except $6 gas. it used to be $4 gas but we have acclimated ourselves to paying that.

but we cannot continue to ignore the environmental impact. current pollution levels are changing the balance of the seas and that will soon affect us and our food supplies even moreso than any drought

NYT: Scientists in Washington State

We need to get on renewables and show the World it can be done. Germany leads the world in solar but still does not produce even half of what they consume. they have a long way to go but new technology has made solar a viable option for a much larger scale. its more efficient, scalable and easier to store than it once was and at a fraction of the cost.

now many will argue that conservation of fossil fuels will do us no good because what we dont consume will be burned up by the rest of the world and that is not true. the World is looking for leaders in the renewable fields. we have small countries like Norway and Iceland who is doing very well on the carbon neutral front but they have neither the respect, exposure or influence that we have.

trust me when i say, if we can collect a billion dollars worth of energy from the Sun every day for free, other countries wont sit up and take notice?

 

Hey, I think this really a plot by Toyota to sell more Hybrids!
I think it's working!!!

 

Sorry but there is no oil on Federal lands or in the US or Alaska or offshore US that will change the basic equation for the US of importing 50% of its oil.

US could increase energy efficiency to world standards (Europe, Japan) become an advanced economy and be 50% more energy efficient and no need to import oil, not need to pay the $500B a year oil import trade deficit tax, not need to pay the $500B a year cost for US military to attempt to secure Middle East oil.

There is no refinery shortage there is just the very predictable summer and winter "maintentance" shortages to artificial raise prices.

 

I'm curious: Do you EVER let facts get in the way of your opinions ?

 

...... Your premise that gas prices are high is incorrect. When people stop using cars as mobile boom boxes to endlessly cruise around & around & around ...... & when people stop hopping in the suburban to go down to the hardware store for a single 65 cent item ( instead of combining multiple errands for the same trip) & when people stop using their cars as mobile AC units - opting to sit on their fat butts in their car in front of Walmart on 100 degree days, rather than go inside the store - only then will gas be starting to get too expensive. No, You don't use up the last bit of resources to solve a problem. We may actually have to open up Alaska etc someday, because we really really have to ... maybe in times of war? .... but mobile AC units in front of Walmart ain't that kind of emergency.

SGH-I717R ? 2

 

This

Around here, some of the worst offenders (in addition to the execs and housewives in suburban assault vehicles) seem to be the "salt of the Earth" types in pickups. The supposed terrible squeeze on small business doesn't seem to bother them at all, despite gas prices near 5$.

I know that Ford has been improving F150 mileage lately, but there doesn't seem to be a push from the buyers of such vehicles for high MPG, based on their behavior. I'm just not sorry for them at all. Tax gas like Europeans, I say, and rebate people living in low population density areas who have to drive a lot. Then we wouldn't be having these supply bottlenecks ......and as a bonus might also stop our economy from hurtling toward oblivion.

 

sitting in your car, running AC is VERY common. more than a few times, i would go meet SO for lunch and i park in employee parking (because i have a sticker!!) and nearly every time, i will see someone obviously an employee who is sitting in their car with it running during their lunch break

 

Very true. Unfortunately the present political class seems intent on creating a trade war with China on panel dumping. This will serve only to increase the cost of panels to US customers. For years we have worked to reduce the per kwh cost of solar, now it is happening.

But just as this happens, we decide we are being treated 'unfair'. If China is willing to subsidize the price of solar panels in the USA - FINE! Lets buy and install them.

I am in semiconductors, I travel to China often. At present, To think we are going to compete with China in high volume, commodity, low cost manufacturing is crazy. Even if we were to open panel manufacturing plants here, the amount of employees is minimal, it is HIGHLY automated. It has to be. Perhaps we should just focus on making the assembly bots used in mfg.

The goal is an installed solar base, IMO preferably distributed on every rooftop. Lets not take our eyes off the goal simply for politics.

 

But we didn't adopt their gasoline requirements. Plain old reformulated is fine.

 

It will serve to keep US jobs and industry so US can afford to install solar panels and other alternative energy and energy efficiency technology.

Getting things cheap from slave labor while destroying US economy is the cost real price.

Yes solar panels made in plants that pay living wages to workers, that must meet pollution standards, that must meet product quality and safety standards, that must meet honest business practices...those will cost more money.

We need regulatory requirement, all new homes must have solar panels for electricity and hot water, be super insulated for example, to mandate US moving to energy efficiency. It will save US $1T a year.

A buying cheap products from polluting plants employing slave labor will not fix US problem of needing huge installation of solar panels and other energy efficiency technology.

 

Here's what I see (humble observation). The far left and the far right (in this thread) have hardline views on how to fix the problem. The real answer is probably a combination of both solutions.

 

No. Progressive's propose a solution. US getting as energy efficient as Europe and Japan and doing it the way they did it, government mandate.

Non-progressives don't see a problem (they are OK with $500B oil import tax, $1T a year oil wars for last 20 years, air and water pollution, global warming) so propose no solution other than the "drill baby drill" fantasy promoted by oil industry.

Increasing US energy efficiency by 50% to European standards, cutting US greenhouse gas and other pollution, building US alternative energy industry (as China, Germany and Korea did via national industrial policy) and eliminating US oil imports is the fix for US problems.

 

Here's a great example of why we can't fix it. Both sides are vehemently opposed to the other's solution.

 

Skip your left/right polemics and break it down to who proposes real solutions (US getting 50% more energy efficient, reducing oil use by 60%) and who doesn't.

Those who fantasize about oil on Federal land and building new refineries propose no real solutions to real US problem of energy inefficiency.