Toyota considering battery production in Europe

Do you think Toyota will build batteries in the USA as well?

I think people are increasingly seeking labor content from their own markets.

 

Europe has tarrif's that may make this battery factory happen.

Previous stories about toyota potentially building the gen IV prius in North America said that toyuota would not build Nimh capacity in North America because it would be a poor investment. They did state that they were looking at lithium production. Note in 5 years does anyone expect that toyota will need the nimh they have now? Without a tarrif there is no reason to build temporary factories here. Lithium and gen IV prius would be lower cost than building in Japan, but that must be balanced by toyota corporate with japanese jobs.

The american produced camry hybrid has sold 34k ytd. I wonder what European produced hybrids have been so far this year. I have not seen a break out.

 

After all the recall and unintended acceleration bad press in 2010? Unlikely.

 

Toyota is losing money by making cars for America in Japan. They talk about it in every quarterly statement, about how costs are higher in japan. They also have been recently hit with a major reduction in sales in China.

Toyota hopes to make more money on financial services in Europe this year than they lose on car manufacturing and sales. In other words they are treading water, which is better opel, peugot, or fiat which are bleeding heavily. Yaris hybrid sales increase comes with a decrease in higher ASP prii.

In NA toyota is making huge profits. Investments in NA seem to have much lower risks than investments in Europe or Asia for the automaker. The only money losing move they made in NA manufacturing is the San Antonio truck plant, but now that they moved Tacoma from NUMMI it can make money, but they did need to close NUMMI.

 

There financial reports showed that they lost money in cars last year, and forward looking statements say they hope to lose less this year, not make a profit on the segment. In the fiscal year ending March 2012, they made more on financial services than they lost on cars. That is what they expect this year.

Yep Europe looks like a very bad market right now. The german's are the only ones doing it profitably.

The news item in august said auris and yaris hybrids sales were up, and prii down. They do touch, they are toyota hybrids.

In Europe people prefer diesels. They also prefer cars manufactured in Europe, especially if they don't come with a tarrif. It would be expensive to try to make the aqua or prius in europe, so the auris and yaris seem like a good strategy. Camry hybrid in america sells more than auris hybrid in europe, it just is the prius liftback sells much better than the camry hybrid. The american hybrid market is much more mature.

 

Well because it's how you read financial statements. You said toyota was going to make money on cars. They said they hope to lose less money on cars. They are trying to turn around their car business in europe. They do make money on banking in Europe. They make more money in banking than they lose on cars. Opel has lost money on cars for 14 years, and its very questionable whether it should stay in business. Toyota could easily lose much more money on cars in europe in 2013, which means investments are risky. Banking isn't the car business. THe gm banking arm when bankrupt in the US and needed to be bailed out. Banking in Europe is not a business that I would project would continue to have long term profitability without government help, and most of the banks have been getting heaps of it.

How many cars in the 2012 fiscal year? In 2011 they sold about 59K toyota nameplate hybrids in europe and 26K lexus hybrids. Are european hybrids doubling this year? They sell a lot more camry than auris, which is why they can sell more camry hybrids at a lower percentage of sales. Toyota projected 835K cars this fiscal year up a little less than 2% from last year. Have yaris sales increased enough for them to up this estimate? I really don't know, but there isn't anything about a revision in the business news, only news about the recalls.

In marketing we call it cannibalization. The analysts would not expect for prius sales to fall without the lower cost hybrid in europe.

THe yaris and aqua are very similar cars. We all know the yaris hybrid was created so that it could be manufactured in europe and avoid the tarrif. Its all about prices and taxes. They could have just labled the aqua a yaris hybrid there, as they labled it a prius in america.

 

Good, that's shut up Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear.

 

huh
Toyota Yaris expert car review verdict - BBC Top Gear
seems the he likes the operating costs and reliability, not much else.

 

It costs $2000 to $4000 to ship vehicles from Japan to Europe depending on their size. It also takes up to 8 weeks. Those components that need to be imported to the factory can be packaged and container shipped more efficiently than an assembled vehicle.

 

Ouch! I thought it was more like $200-$400. Has the trade imbalance between Europe and Japan shifted so much that the ships are empty for the return trip to Japan?

 

Interesting:

I remember one criticism was that Toyota makes no profits on the Prius. The claim by a couple of Europeans was the Prius is just a big 'Green' marketing ploy by Toyota to fool the gullible Americans.

Bob Wilson

 

Go back about 10 years and see what he said about Prius battery pack.

 

The official numbers, and I'm guessing the ones in that link are toyota europe projects going from 822K to 835K, but also expects the market to contract increasing its market share. They stated this as recently as September, along with the explanation that part of this was recovery from the tsunami.

Yes, europe is a sick market, and toyota has lost a great deal of market share since it sold 1.3M cars in 2007. This year they may regain a little. Toyota europe covers more than just europe so these numbers that endat continental borders look a little different. and here is the geographic breakdown from yesterday.

You'll notice over the time period 2009-2012 toyota has grown sales everywhere but europe where sales have gone from 909,544 in 2009 to a projected 783,840 this year. That is a drop of 14% in europe while growing 23% world wide.

Just to note your quote said exactly what I said it was profitable last year because of financial services,. Note toyota calls this out, and it is important disclosure to shareholders and other stakeholders. Greatly expanding manufacturing is not going to change your banking business. So if you are going to analyse investment in manufacturing you should look at the automotive unit and not banking. Your quote says they hope to make european car manufacturing profitable this year, but that is only a hope, and they have been clear that automotive europe as a whole that includes imported cars will not be profitable this year.

Its important to note the overcapacity and weak european market when we look at risks to expansion to manufacturing. That was my point, and its true for all those manufacturers. Building a nimh battery plant in europe doesn't look like a great investment to me. Building prius production in profitable north america looks to be a much better investment. Companies often make bad decissions based on politics and not practicality.

 

Clarkson is entertainment. He definitely is not positive about the yaris hybrid, he seems to dislike the car. I don't think his opinion matters much.