Where's that horn?

What "Three60guy" completely misunderstands is that the woman was a PASSENGER in the car, NOT the driver, and that the car was not moving at the moment of the incident.

- Bob R.

 

And furthermore "Three60Guy" if you're going to accuse me of omitting information, please get in touch with the facts first. I for one would appreciate it.

- Bob R.

 

I do apologize for stating she was driving. My Bad. But please notice he did not challenge the premise of what I stated, which was she placed the HOT HOT HOT cup between her legs.

 

Since you did not appear to check out any of the links I provided (or you would have known that she was the passenger), please review the following:

(From http://www.osmond-riba.org/lis/essay_mcdonalds.htm )

McDonalds coffee and the Liebeck lawsuit
Lis Riba, 2000
Here are some facts about what really happened:

At the trial, it was revealed:

* McDonalds required their coffee kept at 185 degrees Fahrenheit, plus or minus 5 degrees, significantly higher than other establishments. [Coffee is usually served at 135 to 140 degrees]
* An expert testified that 180 degree liquids will cause full thickness burns in 2 to 7 seconds.
* McDonalds knew before this accident that burn hazards exist with any foods served above 140 degrees.
* McDonalds knew that its coffee would burn drinkers at the temperature they served it.
* McDonalds research showed that customers consumed coffee immediately while driving.
* McDonalds knew of over 700 people burned by its coffee, including many third-degree burns similar to Ms. Liebeck's.
* McDonalds had received previous requests from consumers and safety organizations to lower their coffee temperature.

There were many things McDonalds could've done to prevent injuries:

* lowering the holding temperature of their coffee,
* putting warning labels on the cups not to drink immediately,
* redesigning the cups to minimize tipping or prevent drinking in cars

McDonalds knew of the risk and knew scores of injured customers, but did nothing to mitigate the chance of injury.

Evidence showed that McDonalds served their coffee so hot to save money. This let them get away with a cheaper grade of coffee and cut down on the number of free refills they had to give away. McDonalds executives testified that they thought it would be cheaper to pay claims and worker's compensation benefits to people burned by their coffee versus making any of these changes.

Even the trial court judge called McDonalds' conduct willful, wanton, reckless and callous.

On to the situation at hand:

* Stella Liebeck, age 79, was a passenger in the car.
* The car was at a full stop so she could add cream and sugar to her coffee. [She was not the driver and the car was not moving.]
* The cup tipped and spilled over her lap.
* Within a few seconds, Ms. Liebeck suffered third-degree burns over 6 percent of her body, including her inner thighs, perineum, buttocks, genitals and groin.
* Ms. Liebeck was hospitalized for 8 days, and required skin grafting and debridement treatments.
* Parts of Ms. Liebeck's body were permanently scarred.
* Ms. Liebeck tried to settle with McDonald's for $20,000 to cover her medical expenses. McDonalds offered her $800. She sought mediation, but McDonald's refused.
* The jury initially awarded Ms. Liebeck the equivalent of two days worth of coffee sales for McDonalds as punitive damages.
* The trial judge reduced the verdict to something under $600,000.

McDonalds has since lowered the temperature on their coffee.

 

Three60guy, you're just out of your league on this one...

I suppose that you feel it is a serious design flaw that a car doesn't come equiped with a fold out tray - airline style - should be sued everytime a drink is spilled.

Jason

 

Accidents often occur when the two involved don't notice each other.

I have used my horn several times, as an observer, to prevent those others from having an accident.

Think about that.

 

wait a minute - you're not hyperventilating about hot coffee - and you're being logical about a useful tool - are you sure you're in the right thread?

 

jeinpdx:

It is interesting that you missed the precise point I was making. Notice in that lengthy description it merely says "The cup tipped and spilled over her lap." This is called SPIN. I encourage you to discover that the facts I presented are not incorrect. Wouldn't you find it reasonble if you put a HOT HOT HOT cup between your legs that it just might spill?

Just because someone copy and pastes a long list of things doesn't make me out of my league. Sound reasonable?

 

Ok... Ok.. I know where the horn is now... This is a very helpful thread...

Can anyone help me find the gas pedal? I can't get the car to move any faster than an idle. I'm sure there is supposed to be a control for this somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. At first, I thought it was supposed to be fairly basic and standard on most cars, but apparently not.

Anyone found this one yet?

 

So, Three60guy, what does any of this have to do with the issue of the location of the horn on the Prius?

 

Please read post #16 in this thread for background. I was merely challenged about a portion of that post.

 

The coffee thing is like the two guys who decide to use their Craftsman mower that they owned jointly to trim the hedge between their properties and cut off their fingers, or the woman that collected 80k from her Doctor because she took a medication for a urinary track infection that colored her urine orange and when she peed in someone's pool party was "embarrassed" by the event. Coffee is hot, it needs to be hot. We no longer have any personal responsibility.

 

precisely my point. about both the coffee and the horn.

 

I've spilled freshly-made coffee on myself many times in my life. I've never suffered a third-degree burn as a result. I've never suffered a second-degree burn as a result. When I get a cup of coffee, I expect it to be hot, but not so hot that it would cause third-degree burns if I spilled it on myself (or, presumably, if I took a sip). The precautions I take when handling coffee are minimal because I believe that the worst thing that will happen if I spill it is that it will hurt momentarily and stain my clothes. And that, I think, is the crux of the McDonald's case -- there is a cultural expectation for the range of temperatures of a cup of coffee, and the temperature of the coffee they served was far outside that range.

 

To keep this on topic, the point I was making was not the temperature of the coffee. It was our leaning toward blaming others for our own mistakes. Whether spilling our cups or not knowing where the horn blows, we just need to take personal responsibility.

 

A debate on the merits? Merits of what...not being able to beep the horn on your car? With your rather impressive educational background, it concerns me that the lack of instruction on how to "activate" the horn of your car is so debilitating...

Jason Evans
Portland, OR (no anonymity, please)

 

I think the other thing that is represented here is the idea that something is designed/made just for you. It may work in some areas, such as tailors and chefs to mention a few. But to think that mass produced items are going to fit exactly what you want is crazy. Toyota has worked hard to give folks what they asked for in the cars they design. They can't please eveyone. I knew when I bought my car that I would need to learn some new stuff and that is what I do every time I get into my car. There are many different types of education....

PS to Toyota...I like the steering wheel just the way it is!!

 

****** Crickets Chirping ******

 

Thanks for the perspective, I agree with the Japanese philosophy on horns as well as good manners. I don't think honking at people does any good most of the time, usually they will start looking around to see which of their friends is honking at them.

Honking your horn may actually be hazardous, check out this topic by godiva:

http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=13164&hl=