Inverter Water Pump, Toyota likes to screw with us!!!

Well, I disagree with the premise in your title: "Toyota likes to screw..." If that were the case, Toyota would not have bothered to recall the inverter coolant pumps to begin with.

At some point the owner needs to accept responsibility for component failure. Your car is ~8 years old and I assume that all applicable warranty coverage has expired by now.

I agree with your conclusion that the Prius is ultimately not going to be as reliable as some other 8-year-old vehicles. Recognize that Prius has many unique parts which you will not find in a car of regular design (inverter, traction battery, MFD, HID headlights, not to mention the supporting ECU units and other parts like the inverter coolant pump.) All of those parts have some non-zero probability of failure which, post-warranty, often will result in a four-digit repair bill - or three-digits in the case of the inverter coolant pump.

On the other hand, Prius manages to show high reliability based upon surveys such as that administered by Consumer Reports.

If you really want a totally-reliable vehicle then you should buy a Corolla or some other low-tech vehicle with a simple and trouble-free design.

 

The problem I find is that I have a 2008 Prius that is supposed to have the new pump on from new, and this will not be changed by Toyota even though they must know by now this is just as likely to fail. So i'm in a worse position "along with many others" than the OP.

 

Sure, the OP's Prius is eight years old but the inverter pump was only a little more than a year old. It is not unreasonable to expect the replacement inverter water pump to last at least half the lifetime of the original.

Haven't heard of too many complaints about replacement inverter water pumps (yet). I hope the replacement that was just installed in my Prius lasts longer than that - sheesh.

 

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I too got mine replaced via the LSC and agree w/your expectation.

I haven't heard too many either, but the OP's is definitely not the first.

 

Won't the dealer just "goodwill" the repair. If this is a dealer that u use for service on a reg basics, I would kinda demand that it be a goodwill repair.

 

If you look back on PC you will find half a dozen posts about the new pumps failing in the past few weeks and more failing on 2008+ cars that are supposed to be the later pump.

 

Was the original pump failing 14 months ago? If not, was it replaced because the free pump offer was expiring?

The 12v Toyota battery I bought from the dealer lasted about 6 weeks and I believe a 1 year unlimited mileage warranty on replacement parts is pretty poor.

I understand your anger. Perhaps you should contact Ford about trading in your Prius for their new hybrid & starring in a commercial for them.

 

Before doing that it might be appropriate to look for examples that demonstrate that Ford has a more generous policy (than Toyota), going beyond the terms of the product warranty when failures happen. If anyone can find such an example, I would be very interested.

Here is an example that does not demonstrate any generosity on the part of Ford with regards to post-warranty support: spark plugs blowing out of the Ford modular V8 and V10 - which is a much costlier problem than an inverter coolant pump as the intake manifold has to be removed and the two cylinder heads replaced for a complete repair. This primarily is a problem with trucks since the engine bears a greater load under truck duty, but V8-equipped passenger cars also potentially can be affected by the issue:
Spark Plug Problems - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums
Spit Spark Plugs Still Hobble Ford Trucks
mikescartalk.com - Ford's Spit-Out Spark Plugs Hit Mechanics in their Wallets

 

Ok, since that was stated as a fact, can I ask if anyone has definitive proof that there have been no improvements at all in the HV coolant pump design?

Another thing to consider, and I truly hop this isn't the case, but I wonder if any shonky dealers have claimed to have replaced a (working) pump under recall but not actually performed the work. My local Toyota (ex)dealer actually tried out that trick on me. Luckily however I'd taken a good look at the pump before taking it in for recall and could recognize that it still had all the road dust (along with my finger marks) on it, and absolutely for 100% certain had not been touched by them!

Hopefully dealers in the US are more honest then my local dealer, but serious who knows?

 

Good friend Hobbit (who also analyzed the Gen2 MFD failure issue for us) has a full analysis of the Inverter Pump design, failure modes, and the ""Improved" design at:

Inverter Pump

I have the policy of replacing both the Inverter coolant and ICE coolant pumps (along with the "serpentine" belt that drives the ICE coolant pump) when replacing the coolant at 150k miles and again at 300k miles (My 2004 Prius is currently at 230k miles), assuming that neither fails in the interim (neither has failed for me ... yet).

JeffD

 

I don't have definitive proof but my personal experience with my 2004 is that the original pump lasted 81K miles and was still working fine when I replaced it as a preventive measure. The replacement lasted 49K miles and then died.
See my post #106 here:
How to Replace the Inverter Coolant Pump | Page 6 | PriusChat

 

Thanks for the info Patrick.

It seems pretty silly of Toyota to go to all the expense of a recall and not fix the problem. It looks like I'll have to keep a very close watch on the inverter cooling pump again this summer.

 

NOT TRUE!

++ TIME-SERT SPARK PLUG REPAIR KITS - FORD ++ Spark plug ejection problem blown out blow outs spark plugs blown out spark plugs, ford blown out spark plugs blow out spark plug defect thread repair

Well maybe that is the only was a dealer will fix it. Another good reason to take your car to an independent shop.

 

I recognize that those inserts are available and represent a relatively low-cost repair approach. However IMO that approach seems like a half-a__ repair and I wonder how long it will be before the insert itself comes out of the cylinder head. The root cause seems to be an insufficient thread count holding the spark plug in the head due to inadequate thickness of the head material adjacent to the spark plug holes.

Using the Prius inverter coolant pump as an example, an analogous approach might be to install a generic fluid pump bought from some cheap place like JC Whitney, instead of purchasing and installing the correct Toyota pump.

 

What is known about the specs for this pump? Flow rate? About 2A current draw. I'm not suggesting using an aquarium pump or anything, but in this world there are many pumps available.

 

Oh no, please don't suggest this.

Before you know it, there will be someone offering an aftermarket inverter pump which they'll claim is superior to the OEM part. It won't be. Automakers perform extensive testing on all components used for propelling a vehicle. Some fly-by-night outfit almost certainly won't.

 

You are entitled to your own opinion. I on the other hand have experience as an auto technician. I am pretty sure those inserts do not blow out. In my opinion, replacing a junk cylinder head with another junk cylinder head isn't half a__, it is plain stupid, not to mention a waste of money. In this example I'd rather go with something you THINK is half a__ then a stupid waste of time and money.

By the way, those inserts seem to have quite a bit more threads holding them into the cylinder head then the original spark plugs do.

 

I agree that it would make no sense to replace the cylinder head with another head that has the same design flaw. However I understand that subsequent versions of the heads were redesigned to eliminate the flaw.

I also agree that it would make sense for a cost-conscious owner to try the insert first, and see if it will stay put within the cylinder head. Using another Prius analogy, this would be like trying to replace just the one failed battery module (out of 28) in the Prius traction battery and hoping that would be sufficient. Peace.

 

Yes Pat, but I can test the replacement module to find one that matches. Testing the inserts requires very specialized equipment. I would tend to rely on someone like AVI on that topic.

JeffD