What would doubling the EV range be worth in a new PIP?

Can you please add your location to your profile. This is especially important when discussing plug-in value. Electricity prices and pricing schemes have huge variations across the country. Combined with the variation in gas prices, one mans charge is another man's electric shock.

 

Done. Yes it makes a huge difference, especially for those lucky few paying $0.04 kwh, and those unlucky few paying up to $0.33. Or those foolish enough to think a $0.50 per kwh ChargePoint is a bargain. My tier is only $0.26 in L.A, not 30 as I guessed based on someone elses location.

Here is a spreadsheet based on the EPA figures. Maybe your smartphone can run it. This will allow people to enter their own electricity price, or a ChargePoint fee and see what gas price it equals under EPA figures. (sorry for the spelling errors)

 

Your number Volt is off... the mpkwd of the volt, per EPA, is 38/12.9 = 2.94. And there is no way to say what is the EPA miles per kWh for the PiP (and they only reported EPA data is blended).

More importantly is that your estimates are for power being charged at more than twice the national average which is .12.
With a national average of .12 per kWh/hr its .032 or 30 miles per fuel dollar for pip EV. At my power cost (.07) it would be is .019/mile or 52 Miles per fuel dollar for a PiP. Gas would have to be $1.00 or $1.50 respectively for gas to be cheaper to drive HV compared to EV. So for my world, Bigger battery is better, at least until I can do all my normal driving on battery. For me the Volt was an ideal match as my daily commute is 33-36miles depending on route

Note that cost per mile EV or cost per mile HV is not impacted by battery size. Battery size impacts the ratio of EV to HV that one can expect, the bigger the battery, the higher the EV ratio. If EV is cheaper, as it is in most of the country, and the bigger is better. Each person needs to do their own estimate. As Richard, points out each persons driving pattern is different and its good that we have more choices.

 

However, he should be using HIS electric rate for calculations for his personal costs. Which I believe he has been clear about being the reason.
Just like people should use their own electrical price and carbon intensity when calculating which car emits less GHG for them as opposed to national averages.

 

Agreed, no person is really using the national average.. I was just pointing out that the rate he used is 2x the national average, so of limited value for anyone else drawing a conclusion.

While I did not point it out, its actually likely that is not even HIS average electrical rate. Rather it is more likely his marginal rate, because his family is already using soo much electricity, the Cali power company is charging him a higher rate to encourage conservation. Over at GM-volt there are many discussions of people in LA that actually lowered their eletric bill by getting an EV, as the power company allowed them to switch to a TODU/EV rate plan (and with that its $.025 /kWh after 8pm), see SDG&E - San Diego Rates [Archive] - GM-Volt: Chevy Volt Forum Otherwithout a separate meter pay a bit mire, like .10 What gives?! This darn thing is costing me $1.15 every night! [Archive] - GM-Volt: Chevy Volt Forum. So maybe Adam needs to look into a better power plan and/or conservation and/or Solar. If you are paying .24 per kWh, solar pays off pretty darn fast -- especially if you can sell the solar at peak times and charge off peak!

 

^ Yes I agree, I am hoping to set the TOU meter up, but won't be able to do a level II until after construction is done on the new garage. That would make a huge difference. Charging the prius 2-3kwh per day is nowhere near our main power draw, and I haven't asked for a cost analysis yet, so I am a bit ignorant on what the changes would be. Is power still the same rate during the day or is it at a premium on a TOU?

I have had the car a week today and have just been comparing my actual costs. And I also wanted to look into it further upon reading that San Diego is installing 117 $0.50 per kwh chargers, and after seeing people refer to $0.50 per kwh as a bargain I wanted to see if it really was.

Figures for everyone will vary, here are figures from the department of energy comparing the volt, pip and karma. New Plug-in Hybrids

 

Yep, it gets complicated when people try to treat electric usage from EV/PHEV separately from total household use.
Our household usage is less than our neighbors, and that is with two plug in vehicles.
With all vehicles, and I credit Toyota with really getting the ball rolling, the immediate feedback of fuel efficiency prompts many people to try to 'beat' the averages or even their own record.
Anything that draws attention to power use is a good thing in my mind.

 

I just wish Toyota UK offered the PIP at a sensible price. $50,000 is not sensible, let alone for a 15 mile range! Might be why the Volt and Ampera are selling in much higher numbers over here. Shame really, for Toyota.

 

One of the challenges for PiP owners is that the EV range isn't quite enough to jump through the hoops of getting onto another rate plan. households that are in tier 3 typically don't switch to save $25 on 100 kWh/month and perhaps pay $25 more on their daytime use.

 

The $0.50 isn't too attractive for a PiP because of the maximum charge rate of the PiP's onboard charger. $0.50 is marginal for a Volt with it's 3.3KW charger, fairly attractive for a vehicle with a 6.6KW or 7.2KW charger.

edit: I mistakenly read it as $0.50/hr rather than $.50/kWh.

I have an EV subscription for unlimited charging at 160 charge stations around town. $25/6 months, so public charging is less expensive than even my own garage.

 

I'm not in cali so don't have enough data to answer directly for your case. TODU rates varies by company, but as far as I know they all have higher peak usage rates in exchange for lower off-peak. But in Cali, with tiers, its more complex. Some of the post I've seen have owners that went with a second meter had a double win.. they went TODU for their volt, on a separate meter, and TODU on the house, switched some things around (e.g. filter pool/spa at night) laundry in garage to mid-peak,etc, and lowered ther overall bill because they lowered their "Tiers" enough.

 

Thanks drinnovation. It looks like my options are to put the house on a TODU meter where peak power (10am-6pm) in the 2nd tier is $0.60/kwh, or to get a second meter dedicated to the car that gets $0.12 9pm-noon, and $0.22-winter($0.28-summer) noon-9pm. The second option could save me $20 a month on electricity if I did 3.2 kwh non -peak and 1.5kwh on-peak per day. But there are some added administrative costs, which I have to call for. SCE - Electric Cars - Rate Plans for Your Home

John Makes a good point with the power draw. Although it doesn't matter if your charged by the kwh, if your charged by the hour like chargepoint and Blink it makes a big difference, basically a 55% discount on public chargers compared to PiP, making those memberships inefficient. One of the flaws of PiP vs. Volt. I don't think the PiP is perfect by any stretch, but i crashed my car and was going to get a Prius 4 and figured for the same price why not get the carpool stickers and help save the planet.

 

how much is the volt there? which pip is 50k? do you have base and advanced?

 

The Volt and Ampera are the same at $56,000. Our prices do include import duties and 20% sales tax, but to give balance the basic Prius is $35,000. We just get one model of PIP which is the same as your advanced I believe. Oh and all EV's and PHEV's get a $8,000 government grant.

I'm just bitter that they're so expensive compared to hybrids, which are about $5,000 more than a petrol/diesel competitor. Frustrating watching you all enjoy the PIP knowing that about 30 have been sold here because they're so expensive. Luckily we can view figures of cars sold so far in 2012 and the respective numbers are;

Volt: 33 cars
Ampera: 230 cars
PIP: 30 car!
(PIP test model 2010: 24)
Leaf: 337
Fluence ZE: 55
Prius (combined non PIP): 2,854

The Volt/Ampera sell less than the Leaf (which is about the same as the US), but the PIP result is just pathetic. I'm sure most of those will be demo models at dealers. Our petrol costs $8 a US gallon, yet the PIP isn't selling, unless you call 30 a market. OK, our market is much smaller than the US, but even here those figures are nothing. Out of 1.94 million cars sold here in an average year, the above don't even make 3,500.

 

our advanced is 40K and the volt is similar, so other than all prices being higher, seems they are in the same ballpark? and basic pri is 24-25 so again about the same. i don't know anything about the ampera, but if all your looking for is phev ev miles, sure, volt is a good deal. but it's smaller than pri and lower mpg after charge is gone. as always, it's whatever fits your average driving best.

 

But what discounts are available? Don't CA get huge discounts or is that wishful thinking?

 

cali has some rebates and hov advantages, but the east coast is getting the factory incentives. still, i'm talking msrp for msrp. right now, a pip in some places is as cheap as a prius 3. some of us purchased before serious discounts were available.

 

$2,500 federal
$1,500 California
$1,500 toyota finance cash
$ Dealer discount?
MSRP $33,000
Net cost $27,000. Almost half price for a US base model.

 

should be the same..

iw ould like ot see atleast a 25mile range