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New Rotors at 45k??

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by AaronA, Mar 13, 2012.

  1. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    New pads on an old disc definitely should be bedded in as the discs can be grooved and ridged. If you do not bed in it can lead to very poor brake performance in an emergency stop. With new discs and pads because both are machined flat they bed in very fast but it is still recommended.
    Some pad manufacturers put a coating on there pads to promote faster bedding in.
     
  2. AaronA

    AaronA Junior Member

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    The pads are visibly thin. There is perhaps 1-3 mm of pad material left (hard to tell without taking them apart). When I bought the car, I could see that the pads were thin and would need replacement soon. In general, I prefer not to wait for the grinding.

    The question was always if I should replace the rotors or not. I'm going to do the rear brakes on my Volvo tomorrow, so if I have time, I'll pull off the wheel on the Prius while the compressor is fired up. I'll see if I can get a good measurement and some clear pictures.
     
  3. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    I have in the past cleaned the discs when they are smooth but rusty by jacking up the car on one side only, and removing the wheel putting the car in ready and drive ( with parking brake on and wheels chocked)then cleaning the rotating disc with a wire brush and emery cloth. The lug nuts should be put on to hold the disc in place, however great care is needed to avoid the rotating lug nuts. Do this at your own risk, but it does work. An angle grinder with a flexible disc also works well but the disc (rotor) must be rotating to avoid flat spotting the disc. This only works on the outside of the disc as you cannot get to the rear face.

    If the discs are below or near 20mm thick (23mm new) or badly scored or ridged I would change them, since they should then last at least 150,000miles.

    In the UK a good source of discs is Ebay. Try to stick to well known brands, being from the UK I do not know what those are in the US, but in the UK there does not seem to be any quality issues with discs I have bought and all seem as good and sometimes better than OEM.

    I recently replaced my own front and rear (UK Prius has discs on rear) for a total of £57/$90 OEM's were £400.

    Hope this helps.

    John.
     
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  4. AaronA

    AaronA Junior Member

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    I borrowed a friend's micrometer, which was, unfortunately, in inches. I measured the disc in front and behind the caliper, as those were the only accessible places without removing the disc. The average of the two was 21.85 mm. The rotors were very lightly scored and have the weird black corrosion. I've attached some photos (best I could do). Thoughts on replacement?

    Thanks,
    Aaron
     

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  5. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    The rotors do not look to bad and will be ok for further use. The black spots are rust polished in to the rotors. Looks like you have lost the use of a 1/4 inch of the outside edge, this will not clean up with use and will machine that portion of the pads away immediately.

    A light regrind no more than 1/2mm (20thou) per side of each rotor would be good if you can get it done at a realistic price but would probably be cheaper, quicker and more economical in the long run to replace rather than regrind.

    You do not report on how much pad was left if 2mm (80thou) or more I would run these as they are for another 10,000 miles and maybe more dependant on pad life left then change discs and pads. On the Prius in normal use it is reasonable to expect 10,000 miles per/mm of pad thickness.

    If you just fit new pads to the old discs bed them in well, you will know when they are bedded in when the brakes feel good braking from 50mph quickly in neutral.
    Hope this is of help, and do not forget the precautions before you start the job as apart from the difficulty of bleeding if a piston pops out I would hate to think what it would do to fingers if they were in there at the time. Do not let this put you off doing it yourself just be careful.

    John.
     
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  6. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    My diagnosis is excessive rust caused by road salt left on the rotor. It looks like the salt wasn't regularly washed off of the car. It is a good practice to wash your car weekly when salt is spread on the road (cheap insurance). I've never seen that much corrosion on an 07 with so little miles. Like Brit said, the black is rust ground into the metal. I agree with him to change out the rotors but I would DIY. Some times you have to bite the bullet and that is the case here.
     
  7. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    So the dealer was completely correct in the first place. Sounds like a keeper.
     
  8. AaronA

    AaronA Junior Member

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    That was slowly dawning on me as well. Though the service writer's explanation was incorrect, the tech's conclusions were correct. The rotors could be turned and resurfaced (they certainly are thick enough), but it's cheaper to get new ones.

    I'm headed over there today to get something done under warranty. (I bought the car used and only afterwards found out I got an extended warranty with it!) I'm going to buy a new set of OEM pads for $52. I found Beck/Arnley rotors on partsgeek for ~$30 each. I'll keep them in the basement until the brakes start to make noise, then swap them out. (Following the proper procedure!)

    Thanks to everyone for all the help!
    Aaron
     
  9. AaronA

    AaronA Junior Member

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    Epilogue:

    It's been almost eight months and almost 12,000 miles since I got the diagnosis of needing new front pads and rotors. I decided to do the brakes today before the weather gets colder and snowier. It was a fairly straightforward job, but big thanks to Hobbit for his post on which relays to pull so the brakes don't turn on while disassembled. I used a channel lock pliers to compress the calipers and everything went smoothly.

    The brake pads were worn. One small spot was down to the metal, but I did not hear any squeals or noise to let me know my pads were low. One corner of one pad was down to the metal, but I only heard a slight grinding noise with the radio off, at low speeds, on very smooth pavement. I'm guessing the Prius puts so little pressure on the brakes that it's doesn't make the loud grinding of worn brakes I've heard on other cars.

    The rotors were totally shot. As you can see, the fronts of the rotors were in ok shape.
    IMG_5837.jpg
    but when I turned them over, I got a little bit of a surprise.
    IMG_5839.jpg
    as you can see, the pads were making contact with less than half of the rotor. The car always stopped fine, but that is definitely a drop in braking power.
    IMG_5840_2.jpg
    I had judged my rotors on the visible front side, but in the future, I guess I need to remove the rotors to really judge their health.
    Thanks again to all those who contributed to the conversation and helped me out with this!
    Aaron
     
  10. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Yikes I did not realize the rear pad footprint was so much smaller than the front. Good job on the brakes most people bone that up.
    Be aware the weather really attacks and rusts new rotors on a Prius since so little use. Get in the habit of putting the car in neutral and apply the brakes. In neutral no regen brakes only. Just a little firm pressure now and then like on slight hills. Really helps keep the rotors clean. They'll still look like crap compared to reg front rotor but will not get as bad as yours.
     
  11. AaronA

    AaronA Junior Member

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    I'm guessing that the salt got washed off the outside of the rotor quicker than the inside so the salt ate into the inside more. I've done lots of brake jobs and never seen anything like this. I guess that shield on the inside is a mixed blessing.
     
  12. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Congrats on a job well done, and your brakes should now last you 100,000+ miles. Follow what many have said and use the brakes in neutral on occasions to keep them clean you will not measure the extra wear.

    The corrosion on the back of the discs looks very much like mine did but at 80,000 miles I even contemplated removing the dust shields.

    My UK version of the Prius has discs (rotors) on the rear and while I have no problem keeping the fronts bright and clear the rears are milk chocolate brown colored after 8000 miles but smooth and shinny. The rears do to little work to keep clean.

    John (Britprius)
     
  13. AaronA

    AaronA Junior Member

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    Makes me kinda scared to open up my rear drums!
     
  14. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    The drums do not suffer with the problem as when the vehicle is parked with the parking brake on the surface of the drum is 90% sealed by the shoes in contact with the drum.
     
  15. AaronA

    AaronA Junior Member

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    I guess it makes me feel better that the previous owner applies the parking brake every time he parked. I guess the fronts took the beating, but he saved the rears. He parked it on the street in Boston so got all the spray when they salted the streets. I park in a driveway and am hoping I don't have a repeat of the corrosion.
     
  16. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    What really really helps is wheel covers if the car has to stay outside. The brakes will start barking really quick with new rotors left outside. There really cheap and go on fast. They keep all the moisture off the rotors & wheels.
     
  17. AaronA

    AaronA Junior Member

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    wheel covers? do you mean like a solid hubcap instead of the little rim guards?
     
  18. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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  19. AaronA

    AaronA Junior Member

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    Do you put those on everyday? Seems like a great option if the car is only driven once a week or is being stored. I would think driving on a daily basis cleans the rotors pretty well.

    The problem with my car was that the previous owner lived in the city and took public transportation to work every day. The car was only driven once or twice during the week and on weekends. It had low miles, but really rusted rotors. I drive the car every day now, so I suspect I won't have the same issue.

    Aaron
     
  20. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Everyday. Takes 30 seconds to take off.

    Driving does little in a Prius to clean the rotors. Must release regen and therapeutically apply brakes to clean them. They rust while the car sits overnight. Boston like Fla is wet at night.

    Just mentioning it to you because your going to be very bummed when you see how fast your raw new rotors are going to get rusted. Look at your rotors tomorrow morning. Cloth wheel covers will fix that I promise you.