TTAC: Slow EV Sales Disappoint And Frustrate Nissan COO

i think it's just gonna take a little more time than they thought. it's a mindset and gas price related. unfortunately, i don't know if our government will ever give up the hope of cheap gas.

 

$199-A-Month Lease On 2012 Ford Focus Electric Matches Nissan

 

Our federal government is giving them $7500 tax credit, and the state of California is kicking in another $2500. The government is trying to help.

The phev looks like the plug in of choice unless you have the bigger pack of a tesla and the money to buy it. Nissan made a bet that the Japanese and Europeans would buy a low priced bev. I think they are changing expectations, and refocusing on the american market. That means an upscale infiniti, and other tweaks. They need to re target for a smaller but more affluent initial adopter market, instead of one that wants to hug polar beers and simply save money on gasoline. The newer commercials set a much better tone. The mentioning of 29 miles for most daily trips helps both the volt and leaf, and may help grow plug in market share, instead of the "everything run on gas" or "polar bear" that appealed to a few but did not overcome objections.

 

Not know why things are the way they are ... and being frustrated by it says volumes. Nissan has had YEARS to get Chademo quick charging infrastructure up, and yet they've taken VERY little effort to move it forward. This is most clearly made evident in So Cal, where - after almost TWO years of Leaf sales - there are only what ... FOUR public QC's between all of San Diego county, Orange county, Los Angeles, Riverside, san berdino and san fernando counties? Hundreds & hundreds & hundreds of miles .... 4 QC's. Geeeee how surprising folks don't rush out to buy EV's. Toshiyuki-san .... Dude .... get a clue.
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The bigger sales disappointment for nissan/renaut was Japan where there is a chademo QC infrastructure. That is not it. 19K in Japan is far below expectations, they can still get close to goals in the US.

I seriously think a 100 AER BEV does not need chademo, only L2 and L1. 73 mile AER with questions about hot weather range loss make phevs look relatively appealing. The styling also may be keeping sales down, as is judgement for what the initial adopter market wants. IMHO nissan can greatly increase sales if they focus more on the US market. The new pricing and advertising should help as well as 6.6kw L2, leather, more efficient hvac, etc in the 2013.

Nissan exec: Leaf sales fall short of goal | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

Plug-in Car Sales Numbers Spun in Both Directions | PluginCars.com​

 

Just 5 or 6 years ago, it looked to many like EV's time had come:

(1) oil was depleting and in hands of mid-East regimes
Now however, we have gas boom and oil boomlet, and where the oil is is Canada, Mexico, Brazil who are not such bad enemies. US is likely to be No. 1 oil producer in 2013.

(2) Global warming concerns lead many to believe nuke power was the planetary savior + wind + solar. But the Japan Tsunami and other mini-disasters have since destroyed (Japan) or threatened (USA) several nuke power plants, pointing out that the current management/design philosophy to date may have been less robust than needed.

(3) It was assumed fossil fuels is dying technology, with no room for improvement, whereas EV was considered to rapidly become cheaper due to innovations. In reality of course many innovations have come in the fossil fuels area as well.

(4) Not to mention the world financial crisis which I believe came after the initial 2007 Democrat/Bush admin EV $7500 subsidy bill.

Having said all that, USA democratic party is generally committed to EV. So its still a "go" here. It seems obvious we need a diversity of energy sources such as EV for the future. But do we have to expidite $$ adoption before the actual need? or can we let it come on its own as it makes economic sense?

 

There's resistance to the Leaf here in the UK from a surprising source - Nissan dealers!

I wonder if it's because they won't make their huge markups on service plans and the like? But I understand a good minority of their dealers don't want anything to do with EV's. That and the fact that the Leaf is super expensive for what it is, is the reason for poor sales. Perhaps Nissan UK just didn't want that weird looking, quirky car from Japan? It has been out nearly 2 years and they're only now running tv adverts for it! How are people meant to know if you have a fabulous new product if you don't tell them about it.

If anything, the EV market in Europe should be massive compared to the US as the price of our fuel is more than double to cost of yours.

 

lol. oil then and now is controlled by opec. Opec produced 38% of the worlds oil in 2010, and could produce more but it is a cartel controlling price. You may be right on the US being number 1 producer again, and I am surprised.

Russia is producing more oil than the US this year. OPEC and Russia are petroleum exporting nations, the US will still import close to 40% of its oil next year. We can't drill our way out, we need to use less oil.

Again I don't think this had much to do with the 2006 US policy. It could have affected policies in Japan and France.

The US government is funding advances in ICE, biofuel, and plug-in technology. Nissan was the only major auto company that projected large bev sales.

WE were at war in Iraq, with scares in opec countries. OPEC is still unstable. The million plug-in subsidy will wait for market adoption and it appears that phev may grow quickly. We just will get there in 2017 instead of 2015

There is nothing broken about US plug-in subsidies. Nissan on the other hand has some serious strategy changes.

That is not surprising at all. GM, Nissan, and Toyota dealers have been talked about as a source of slow adoption. Tesla wants to keep its own dealerships to avoid the dealer problem. I'm sure if someone comes in ready to write a check the US Nissan dealership will take it, but they won't try hard to sell one here.

 

I am not going to debate as my points stand, perhaps I should have said USA has a *chance* to be No. 1 oil producer in 2013 versus likely. I am trying to document changes in the world in the last 5-6 years.

Re: Nissan strategy changes, any post-election predictions for the planned USA Nissan leaf/batt plant?

 

great minds may disagree ... the reason Japan sales may be poor is because they have other issues (as do we in the U.S.) such as electric infrastructure failure vis a vis nuke meltdown/quake / weakening economy / reliance on mass transit etc. The reason weak U.S. EV sales may relate to QC (imo) may not only be range limitations/QC speeds ... but with heat related capacity loss. I'm thinking if you're prematurely facing a 15%-20% premature capacity loss on an EV that gets 100 miles on a good day ... well then you will REALLY need to rely on QC ... at least a partial charge of 30% to compensate. And yes ... the is also the butt ugly hideous look factor. Although my vanity plates says, "IBELEAF" ... I still seriously consider changing it to, "1UGLYEV". Form over function ... for now.

 

I agree here. It also may have much to do with government incentives that were added for hybrids, making the BEVs look relatively more expensive. The prius and aqua had better than expected sales in Japan, and that had to hurt the leaf and imev. My point was that Nissan really missed there numbers badly in Japan in-spite of QC.

I think the new ads featuring

May help. Maybe we agree to disagree about QC needed for sales. If you are buying the car expecting to go 73 miles each day, its probably the wrong car unless you are charging at work. IMHO having L2 available just in case is important, but people aren't going to pay for L3 in a leaf. California is building them in the next few years an we will see. I see a building market for EVs in the US, and it takes time. Capacity loss is scary. We need have more data to see how bad it is, but this will hurt leaf sales whether we have QC or not.

Yes, I think this can all get fixed in the american market I have a feeling they test marketed the leaf look in japan not here, but who knows. IF there is a real problem with capacity loss Nissan needs to be proactive changing battery chemistries and swapping out bad batteries. Bad PR will be very costly.

 

I almost got a LEAF, but they were more expensive and its hot where I live so this worried me: Real World Battery Capacity Loss - MyNissanLeaf

 

Fair enough. Rusia may not increase production as fast as the US, so it may be the largest producer, as well as a large importer. Reducing oil consumption is just as important as it was in 2006 when the government started the plug-in push.

The battery plant is moving forward as planned. They just won't use most of the capacity. Nissan has spent $1.6B to build the leaf in the US.

 

This is interesting point GrumpyC. Prius hybrid was slowly adopted too, right? Getting beyond the usual rhetoric about diesel preference in Europe, when I took a cab over there earlier this year (in Germany) the cabbie told me my Kohl's $25 blue jeans would cost ne over a 100 euro. Maybe its just everything is so expensive that there is less driving to save money, whereas here one gets Prius for $US22k or less and then saves big money on energy costs for fuel. The reason for saving money on fuel is lots of miles driven...I put 18000 mile per year on the Prius and that's nothing - me and spouse only have 10 mile commutes to work. Low cost of ownership, quite cheap if you hold car 5-10 years to get the payback.

 

There seems to be some traction is the homes with Solar Power and theNissan Plug in car in So California. Many consumers can power the home , drive the car , and make a little $ selling power to the energy company for a nominal cost of the solar lease.

 

i have no idea how do you think they should push the Leaf as their marketing priority when at best they sell hundreds of them, vs 8000 other cars per month they sell in the UK (or whatever the real number is).

 

I personally doubt that a charging infrastructure makes much of a difference at the moment. I think most people want to charge at home and have good range. Using a public charger requires a major change in how one lives, unless it happens to be next to their job or mall or something. I would never want to rely on one being around and working and not being full at the time. Also, I travel nowhere one could even ever exist unless it was installed at work and I bet many are the same way.

Other than general public ignorance, which affects any new product (and people seem very slow to learn with vehicles, e.g. Prius), the remaining main issue is price and/or range. Lower the first and/or increase the second and you attract more people.

I think Nissan's main mistake was thinking more people would pay $30k+ for a car that doesn't really cover many miles. The car itself is pretty great for what it is. I got mine because I got an incredibly lower, criminally low price on it--not much higher than the $199 mentioned in the first post, but without any money down. I couldn't resist.

 

I hear you. But it didn't really help when they bunged the price up by £2,000/$3,200 within days of release.

This is their trophy car. They're proud of it and want EV's to take off, yet it's taken nearly 2 years and falling sales before they even consider advertising. It's a complete half arsed effort and almost like they want it to fail (in the UK at least). Have a quick read of the UK Leaf forums and you'll hear lots of comments about mediocre service from a fair number of Leaf dealers.

I have a dreadful feeling it's too little too late. News about the 2013UK built, European Leaf has also fizzled out completely, making me wonder if it is actually ever going to be built. That factory is running flat out making the Nissan Juke and perhaps it makes more sense to concentrate on that rather than a car that has so far failed to meet expectations?

The Renault Zoe Renault Zoe: an electric car that makes sense? - Telegraph is due early next year and is HALF the price of the Nissan Leaf (though you do lease the HV battery).

 

The EV has it's niche but for me it would be impossible unless the range was much higher and even then it would be difficult. Perhaps as a second car. My job is a 40 Mile round trip. But who knows what tomorrow may bring. I may have a different office address and my commute can be longer. Also I have many days where I need to drive much father 100 or 150 miles RT. On the weekend a driving trip is normal several times a year or a driove our to Las Vegas. If I was retired and just driving in my town the EV car would be great, and for long trip use a Hybrid. But 2 cars on the road can be expensive.