plug-in states and ghg

Why yes, the yaris that was imported was 100% non-north american content. It was a bad program to begin with. If it was supposed to be able keeping the auto industry out of bankrupcy and american jobs it failed.

If it was about supporting highly efficient cars it failed also.

 

Why yes, yes it is simple minded. BEVs and PHEVs do not need to be greenwashed That guy driving his prius 30,000 miles a year is not being as green as that guy that rides his bike to work, but drives an SUV with stuff in it 5000 miles a year - actual green friend here. Riding a bike or taking public transportation is likely much greener than having a plug-in. But plug-ins are not green washing.

This thread was to those folks that thought just because on average the 2007 grid will have produced more ghg for many plug-ins compared to a prius, the spots that plug-ins are going means that even if the grid got no cleaner - and it has - the net impact to the country is reduced ghg. It is a small number compared to the prius though today. That number can be drastically increased with more renewables and a cleaner grid. Plug-ins not only reduce gasoline usage today, they also reduce ghg. I'm not leaf or CARB speaking zero though. They still are in the ball park of very efficient cars like the prius whan it comes to ghg. Clean up the grid, go renewable if carbon footprint is your thing and they are much cleaner. I just do not have statistics on how many plug-in owners are buying renewables to cover there extra electric miles.

Certainly there are two types of renewables easily for purchase wind and solar. You can score these. I would not consider it proper analysis to assume that indivicuals had no impact on renewables. That seems like an excuse for not considering renewable power. I certainly was not saying buying solar in the past that didn't cover the plug-in would do much for the plug-in footprint. I was talking about new solar or increased wind. No straw men need apply. I can see how a state like NM or west virginia might want to pretend that they have no control of their carbon footprint.

I don't know any plug-ins that plug into the national grid. Most plug into local grids If there are 5 plug ins in state 1, and 1000 in state 2, which has more of an impact? Now what did you learn in the last 5 years? Was it the grid is frozen in 2007, and texas produces no more wind electricity than it did in 2007 because purchases of green power don't do any good.

I guess I am just dumber than a box of rocks, when I said in the past to you, it matters where the cars plug in, and how much greener the grid gets. No, I have not yet come to the realization you thinkI have that plug-ins go on a national grid, and local things and improvements over time don't matter. I hope many others embrace my foolishness and do some real analysis on what is happing to the grid and where plug-ins are being charged. Then maybe those past comments that they will greatly increase coal usage will be analysed.

 

lol
How about a 60 mile aer phev gen V phv, with 60mpg in cs mode, that costs the same as the current phv.

 

As we have seen from the analysis on the OP, if we use conditional probability, it is likely neighbor B, but not by much. That is because it is likely from the sales statistics, that if someone buys a plug-in they will be living in an area whose grid produces less ghg than the national average. But these are collective statistics, and I would not say the difference is very much.

I'm sure you are thinking volt in NM versus prius in NM. Here the volt if driven as the EPA guesstimates will produce more ghg. mainly because of the CS mileage. A leaf (220) will produce about the same amount as a prius (222). YMMV with the prius doing better on longer trips and more airconditioning, and the leaf beating it on shorter trips or slower speeds or more stop and go driving

Now, when I talk about reducing ghg with renewables, I am talking about adding marginal renewables to the mix, which is different than your story problem. That would mean that that guy with the plug-in would have more KW of solar or kwh of wind than their neighbor. As I have also said, we do not have good data on this yet. Certainly if you are buying wind, than you will buy more wind with a plug-in than without it.

As more people use wind though in states like texas and colorado, we build more wind and upgrade the grid. Since it costs more money to turn off a coal plant, but only a fine to shut down a wind turbine many places will continue to run coal instead of wind during some days in colorado, mostly at non-peak times. In texas with a different grid, some upgrades are needed, and more coal plants will be shutting down for the winter this year. Some places this is not true. It all depends on the marginal nature. For renewable analysis with plug-ins some major assumptions are needed and at least a 5 year time horizon looked at for the grid.

 

He said take austin. If you are recharging at public stations here and/or buying wind more gets added to the grid. You are directly reducing ghg versus gasoline. Some extra natural gas gets burned also to stabilize the grid so it does not go to zero. When enough renewables are added, the local coal plant gets shut down. The mayor is pushing for this to happen before 2020. A coal plant in san antonio is getting shut down in 2018.

It is the oposite of a zero sum game in central texas. The more renewables that get used, the more that get built, which pushes down the price coal plants in texas can charge for their night and winter electricity. That makes them unprofitable, and hopefully will shut them down in the winter.

 

On the first part, I was never saying anything different.

On the second part, I can say locally most people with plug-ins use wind. Since that plug-in driver likely lives in a house, and locally wind or PV are quite affordable, I would guess at least here the plug-in driver in texas is more likely to use renewables. This likely does not translate everywhere. With the way the incentives run you don't really get rewarded here for putting up extra PV, so the guy adding it to his house likely will add more if he has a plug-in or will be buying one soon.

Most of the vocal people on PC with plug-ins either live in lower carbon states - I agree with hill california is not low carbon - or buy renewables.