I drove a Volt today.

See: Chevrolet Spark EV is Pure, Electric Fun

 

6th paragraph down

 

this one ?

that doesn't sound like "oregon only" .

The Toyota RAV 4EV seems to only be offered in very limited quantities in California.

 

Note this is not measured HP in the real world or on a dyno. It is some wierd undocumented MT estimate, with no discussion how they modeled/mesausured it. It is from their "first test" article -- an article where they had multiple errors on other stats as well. For example the same article claims the engine does not directly engage until 70mph -- maybe that is why their graph does wierd things they wanted to make it match their misconceived data. However its well documented, the ICE can connect directly to planetary gearing as low 35mph, and disengages. So I take the whole plot with a dash of media manipulative hype.

But so what if the curves differ.. if I plotted HP vs speed for 4 and 5th gear of regular car I would also see a difference.. that does not mean the car does not have full performance.

In my view the performance of the Volt, in EV at 100 mph, is "full performance", I was still accelerating when I hit the limit. Maybe not accelerating fast, but it was accelerating better than my previous honda did at that speed.


But of course "full performance" is a relative term. So if you want to say its misinformation that the Volt is a full performance EV and use this plot to prove your point, then given the Volt in EV has more HP than the PiP (or Prius), even at 100MPH in EV mode is not "full performance" , then I guess that means you have to argue that the PiP is never a "full performance car" or a "full performance hybrid".


I wonder how many hoursepower the iMev would get in this model.. Note the Volt's 149hp EV motor is not showing that in this graph so their methodology would not really be based on rated HP.

 

A truism that there is a production level needed for profitability-- problem is we don't know that that is. Stories have states that back in the summer it was already at variable break-even or past it, to per-unit positive margins.

Also not clear that a product has to be profitable to sell or be continued. Corporate profit models can be complex. GM spends 4Billion per year on advertising, 4 times the total development costs of the Volt. What have you allocated as the advertising value of the Volt toward the bottom line?

Replace GM and Volt in the above with Toyota an prius, and this could have been printed in 1999 about the Prius..
It did leapfrog in technology and we'll have to wait to see if its sales do as well. In the 3 years since the Volt launch I've only been more impressed as the Jonny-come-latelies, like the PiP and C-Max and Honda Plug in accord, have been weaker and years behind. The gap is not narrowing.. in my view its widening.

Really.. what is the basis for the satement the Voltec platform cannot have different engines/motors or batteries. What will you say about the ELR? How many years from the Prius launch to the first derivative?

No basis in fact for Toyota taking a different approach.. it too was top-down to make the decision to invest in a radical new concept. Both companies had internal champions (so partially bottom up), but the decision proces for both was totally top-down. If you mean pricing, both GM and Toyota (and Ford) introduced their cars at a premium, to say otherwise is disingenuous. The price of all of the PHEVs is at a premium, and the difference in $$premium for improvement in MPG or overall EV range favors GM, not Toyota.

 

So what do you think the penalties are for Toyota and the PIP being that's only sold in a handful of states yet is having to be heavily discounted? They've abandoned their BEV effort. Could that be one?

 

You are welcome, glad to be of help. The Volt posters here don't seem to understand, they are using the Prius Chat to diss the Prius and promote the Volt as being superior.

What do they expect? However the posters who don't show respect to fellow Prius Chat posters -get what they deserve. Yet they cry or whine like a baby.

If they don't like it, leave Prius Chat.

DBCassidy

 

I hope Toyota doesn't abandon the PiP as well. If they move production to the USA, add more battery capacity, extend the EV range, and lower the price some more it could be appealing to more people than just Prius owners.

 

Bev market is not growing. Consumers are skeptical of the BEV. Can't blame them at all. The majority of the driving public use practicality for their commute. The Prius fit that need extremely well. The Volt, currently does not. Battery development is stil in the embrionic stage. If and when the BEV can match the range of a gas powered vehicle on a single charge (with competitive pricing as a gas vehicle), then consumers will take notice of the BEV. Until that day arrives, the BEV will still be in a niche market.

DBCassidy

 

Yeah right, John posted "he likes this" - so much for your ignore theory.

DBCassidy

 

Humm... Seems if the government "bought" the car for you with a 40k subsidy, the dealer would then try to sell it for 70k.
The point is, more people would buy if the incentives were allowed to go to the consumer. After all, it "is" our tax money that's giving the incentives.

Just like the bank bailout... Meant for consumers and the banks just kept it.

As far as oil.. We make and have plenty... Alaska pipeline, Canadian, it doesn't matter..... We don't tap our oil and keep it to use it ourselves any more than we do our electricity.....
It's a global market!!!

We are not going to hold oil out of our ground in storage for us to use when someone else in the world will pay a Premium for it and we can just get more.

I really wanted the volt to work for me since it has such a long ev capability.... But the headlights are lame "only two" that act as highbeam and low "one on each side of the car", not a family car at all unless you put kids and dogs only in the back seat... And mileage drops to 37 after ev is gone. A great commuting car... That's it.

It's very romantic to drive on electricity alone indeed...... But the Prius will save you more money unless you do serous short range commuting only.

Making an electric motor ran by batteries that's rechargeable by an on board generator is not near as complex an engineering feat as what Toyota has done.

And Remember, when the dust settles.... You have a chevy.... Not a Toyota.
Good luck with longevity without issues.


SCH-I535 ? 2

 

Windstrings, I am having a hard time understanding your post. You seem to be frustrated with US government policy on incentives and energy.

The Volt is a great commuting car as you say, and "short range" turns out to be about anything under 150 miles per trip compared to a Prius, depending on how much you pay for electricity.

Your in Central Texas. I drove my Volt from Austin to Houston alongside my daughter driving our Prius. I used less gas than she did.

 

She was carrying all the heavy luggage.

 

Not quite. She had the dog (inside, not on the roof) and I had a couple bikes on the bike rack. Her boyfriend was driving the uhaul with all the luggage and furniture.

 

No way unless you recharged periodically. ..... The EPA says the 2013 Volt's electric range is 38 miles, and it rates the gas mileage at 37 mpg in gasoline mode after electricity is depleted.

The longer your trip. The worse the mileage approaching 38mpg.

The way you figure your gas mileage in a volt is.... Total MPG = ~37 x miles/(miles-35)
That comes from gm's Web page.
Chevy Volt FAQs

So if you drive 100 miles starting with a full charge you would have approx 56.9 mpg . (3700/65 = 56.9)

On the other hand if you drive 500 miles you have (18500/465 = 39.7mpg

Now, let's go on vacation with no place to plug in.... We drive 1500 miles (55500/1465 = 37.88 mpg.

It's clear any stretch longer than 100 miles the Prius beats hands down "without cost for any electricity"

The volt is simply a failure unless you by in large use it primarily for commuting less than 100 miles between full charges.

I'm not alone in feeling they screwed up with the high price.
They just don't have the track record to think they're all that and a bag of chips yet. High price soured Chevy Volt sales - Mar. 5, 2012
SCH-I535 ? 2

 

Lol.... Your as long winded as me!

I really appreciate your post and the other viewpoints.... I had discounted the leaf because of reading of fears they were using the battery "too" much and it may not last..... I may have to go drive one myself for fun... It's possibly a better commute car.
It's exciting to see the competition... I trust Nissan more than chevy.

My only problem is I need a car that will beat the Prius on short commutes as well as long commutes..... That appears to be a tall order in this price range.

So far prius wins on that ticket.

SCH-I535 ? 2

 

The main advantage of the volt over a leaf is the extended mileage abilities as you never know when you'll need to go past what the battery will do.

But in my mind the volt is only worth the money strictly as a commute car, especially with the limited rear seat space.... So the leaf makes more since as a strictly commute car...



SCH-I535 ? 2

 

Nope, I just had a full charge when we started the trip. I did get a full charge before driving back to Austin. The formula you referenced on the gm-volt.com site is very conservative. I got about 49 miles EV and 43mpg the rest of the drive to Houston. My daughter got 48mpg in the Prius.

I figure if we drove together all the way to New Orleans, 500 miles, the Prius would have eventually caught up.

I save enough gas on my regular daily drives that I could do your 1500 mile vacation without any charges and still use less gas than your Prius.

 

You don't understand the full usage model, unless you just take vacations all the time. If you drive 12000 miles a year, and do one 1500 trip, and the rest is commuting, then you will have used about 42 gallons for the trip.. toss in some medium length trips (200 miles a few times for) and call it 60 gallons a year, or about 200MPG. Good luck doing that in our prius.

I take multiple vacations a year, including a 2K trip to Tx since I bought my volt and lots of trips well beyond the range of a leaf and my lifetime usage MPG is > 220mpg. What your prius get again? If I had a Leaf I would have used 30 gallons of gas more as I would ahve had to take the other family car for my longer trips.. The volt is a great commuter + occaional long trips. If you are driving more per day then the range where a volt is more efficient than a Prius, you need a ew job a nwe home or both.

 

I wonder if the Chevrolet Cruze at 17,300 is the better choice than the Volt at $31,645. Based on typical driving habits of 12,000 miles per year perhaps buying the Cruz and paying gas is the better choice.