Ford's electrified C-MAX racks up sales record in November, beating Toyota

The important perspective is that the power-split hybrids + PHEVs (Ford and Toyota) outsold two-mode hybrids and PHEVs (Volt). About 20,000 to 2,000.

 

I hope so Austin. What's good for Ford is good for America. Hopefully they will close the quality gap. I like your environmental posts. The question is Ford just puting another EV out there to satisfy the MPG requirements the FED has imposed or are they investing in a technology that they believe in and will take the industry by storm and can back it with something the consumers will embrace.

 

Yep Toyota had a vision over 12 years ago, made a deep investment above a Billion Dollars, and is now the Market Leader. If you came to me 10 years ago and said Prius would be the best selling car in Japan and California and a top 10 in the USA I would have said are you crazy. Time will tell if true Leadership comes from Detroit and if they can build a EV that can restore confidence and drive sales. Bob Lutz may be that guy but he seems to be retiring with the exception of writing books and staring in documentaries.

 

I worked in corporate America for several US and several foreign companies and sometimes produced a product. Never bought, used or produced a perfect product no matter the source or the intent of the producer. And I had more people in product test than in product design and production. All you can ask is prompt disclosure, prompt investigation and product recall/update. And fair and courteous treatment. What is fair to you might not be to me.

Bought ~40 cars over the last 54 years for my or family use. Never had a perfect one from any manufacturer and I've sampled Alfa, VW, Volvo, BMW, Porsche, Pontiac, Plymouth, Dodge, Chevrolet, Ford, Renault, Datsun, Nissan. Honda, Acura, Avalon, Prius, etc.

But can I really say anything based on cars that were made 9 to 70 years ago? Nope. But I can say that when my wife's Acura transmission went for a known recall problem they had inspected and told me in writing wasn't an issue with mine, the dealer and Corporate Honda wanted to change me $1.5k more than the local transmission shop and it was the dealer that had inspected mine and said I wouldn't be having the problem. Cross them off the list when I next bought. It was Buick made in Canada or Avalon made in Kentucky and the highest US content car made that year.

I can say the Avalon has not needed anything in 1 year and 12k miles. The Prius nothing in 1 month and 780 miles. But I could get a recall notice or a random failure tomorrow. Parts will fail and I could be early or late on the bell curve.

I see Ford just had 89k Fusion/Escapes recalled. I don't rule out buying Ford the next time because of that.

 

Well said Mike, I like your honesty.

 

The Prius Gen 3 had over 500 patents I believe a record for a car design. It is this type of investment that takes a market by storm. Tesla came from nothing to a car that has recieved accolates from the Industry and getting one is about as dificult as geetting an iPhone on launch day. All boot straped by a Silicon Valley start up guy with a passion and than embraced by Wall Street with it's Capital raising ability. Now that is American! Ford needs to have that type of passion or the Elon Musk's of the world will pass it as fast as a Ferrari at the red line passes a Prius on the Autastrada.

 

I would buy an Tesla in a second... and I am not American .

Which is why I dislike fanboyism when it comes to manufacturers, based on the country of origin. Hey, I am typing this on HP laptop using Microsoft Windows while I talk on iPhone and my wife is surfing on iPad.

I understand why people do it, but i think vast majority of friends visiting priuschat should know much better than that.

 

The focus EV was an obvious compliance car.

The c-max and fusion hybrids are there to make money, but they are also there to act as green halos. The escape hybrid did not live up to sales expectations, and the c-max was a rethinking of the market. It looks like it hits the price/mileage target in a much better way. I don't think we would be getting these cars without cafe standards though. Bill Ford wanted them, but there is a lot of old thinking at all the auto companies.

The energi models are something the state of California is thusting upon us. Ford is making a full effort here though. Only the c-max energi is priced to sell, the fusion energi is price to get people to buy the hybrid. It is a modification of the european car though, and a clean sheet approach would have it longer, more aerodynamic, with more cargo space. Ford doesn't have the deep pockets that toyota had in developing the prius though, and seems to be doing the best it can.

Ford does have some quality problems, but they mainly are on the explorer and fiesta, and last generation escape. The last generation fusion was a very high quality car, and the c-max appears to be that way. The current fusion has a problem with its 1.6L ecoboost. Quality needs to be looked at model by model.

Ford also got around 500 patents on the hybrid system. I'm not sure how innovative it was though. Tesla seems to have done some very good innovation.

Agree here, and I'm sure some at Ford have that passion. Unfortunately its a big old company and moves slowly.

 

...you know, part of the reason we may be stuck at 3% hybrids is some buyers do want a FORD or Chevy etc., so C-Max gives the chance to reach 5% hybrid sales if it is successful.

 

My test drive of the new C-MAX left an impression that the gas pedal was tuned for acceleration . . . a maximum version of "PWR" mode. It was difficult to accelerate at an easy rate that keeps the engine in the peak BSFC range. I'm beginning to wonder if more test drives, especially of the Volt and future Jetta hybrid will reveal similar accelerator performance?

I'm beginning to wonder if over-sized, electric power, geared and targeting acceleration might be an important key to North American sales. Of course none of use would ever race between traffic lights but I'm wondering if something as simple as 0-60 times is really all it takes? We know Consumer Reports and other car magazines are stuck on this metric (and 'the comfy chair'.)

Interesting times we live in.

Bob Wilson

 

Try test driving a bmw 335i. The prius "PWR" mode gets renamed sport in the lexus because its not high power If the pedal is hard to modulate that is a different issue. Watch the video review above, and you will see the reviewer has no problem with the accelerator in the energi unless he is in ev mode and wants to accelerate above 70.

I don't think its its 0-60, but yes the reviewers do want more power and better handling than say the prius c and liftback. There is a segment of consumers where eco mode is certainly powerful enough. Choice is good.

 

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