Toyota November Tops US Electric Plug In Vehicle Sales For November

Great news to hear on Toyotas' Nov. plug in sales!!!. hopefully this should continue.

DBCassidy

 

USB, could you tell us the source. this graph is really interesting.

Thanks,

DBCassidy

 

The Volts' power split doesn't hold a candle to the Prius - that is a fact.

DBCassidy

 

I can load 2 x 12 x 8' scaffolding planks into the Prius. Can you say the same of the Volt?

DBCassidy

 

Yep, the more things change at GM, the more they stay the same. This could be a possible reason why the Nov. 2012 sales numbers eclips the Volts' numbers.

Even the Leaf had greater numbers than the Volts.

DBCassidy

 

Some, yes; but for now batteries are expensive. You can see it in the high price of the Tesla battery, even though it is made from extremely large scale off-the-shelf battery components.

 

No doubt battery development needs to progress in developing lower cost,more powerful batteries (factors of production). The Pip will be the leader in this area.

DBCassidy

 

I'd say more like fundamental tech progress, but I'm mincing words

 

The data is from EPA. I entered a zip code per state so I could see all the states visually. It was indeed an eye opener.

Beyond Tailpipe Emissions

 

That is impressive!!!

DBCassidy

 

any idea when they are going to update the site with data from this decade?

 

Probably, although I've never tried and probably never will.

The seats fold reasonably flat and there is 8 feet between the front dashboard and the back of the hatchback area. The Volt's hatchback area is the same or slightly wider and higher (with hatch closed) than my gen 2 Prius. I don't have a gen 3 to measure.

 

Tax credit gives Volt 3x more and it is not based on the gallons of gas it saves nor the amount of greenhouse gas it cuts down.

I am not critizing Volt for being 8 cubic feet smaller but the entire package and the results.

I am averaging about 26 kWh/100mi in winter with PiP on electricity and 54 MPG on gas. I am using PiP as intended, EV for low speed and HV for high speed. How are you driving to achieve it? I am asking because it is not typical among other Volt owners on Voltstats. If you drive like EPA cycle, your Volt would consume 36 kWh/100mi.

I have another name for it for distinction. Cordless Gas Engine Carrier - CGEC.

There is no denying that Volt works for you. Electricity needs to be very clean or you need to drive slow to pull it off.

 

[Apologies in advance for the long answer]

Actually, I am driving it like the EPA cycle...the actual EPA cycle results are derated by around 30% before being published. I have a 2011 Volt which doesn't have the Hold mode that was added later so I have less control over when the gas engine runs than you do.

I drive 45.5 miles to work on battery at 55-60 mph and get a half charge at work on 120V. Sometimes I make some side trips that add another 15-20 miles. Sometimes I can add some extra charge at 240V. On the drive home the gas engine usually kicks on while I'm driving on the highway around 20 miles from home. The last couple of miles are on city streets with some hills and a modest elevation gain (500 feet). I also drive on gas at other times when the battery runs out so my gas miles are mostly highway but with some significant city driving.

I've averaged 46 mpg in recent months although my OnStar lifetime hybrid (gas-only) mpg is 40-41 (my total mpg including grid power is 200+ mpg averaged over the last few months). I experimented with various driving strategies during the first year including being mislead by an inaccurate speed/mpg graph in a Car & Driver Volt article. I also used some Mountain Mode techniques during the first year that optimized city driving on EV but confused OnStar into thinking my hybrid mpg was lower than it actually was. I know better now.

I rarely use heat on the climate controls and usually drive with the fan off or on low and circulating to the windshield and floor. I listen to the stereo and use the GPS navigation and in winter my morning and return trip is often with the headlights on. Morning temperature is typically 50-55F and evening is 60-65F but is comfortable with no or low fan. Tires are inflated to around 40 PSI (35-38 recommended, tire max is rated as 50).

I accelerate and brake modestly and use 'L' drive position to maximize regen on long and steep downhill stretches on city streets. I use cruise control when possible on the highway. I stay in the slow lanes but do not purposely draft behind trucks. Good hybrid mpg in the Volt requires avoiding short trips on a cold engine and keeping speeds above 35 mph when possible in order to avoid serial mode.

In other words, I just drive like a boring hybrid owner while I listen to podcasts and periodically calculate my efficiency. Other Volt owners report similar results. It's not difficult at all. It's mostly keeping the max speed at 60 or so and keeping climate controls off.

 

Toyota is putting r and d In low cost sulfur based battery. Also wireless charging. I would not be surprised that in 2015 we see a Pip EV-40 for under 30K.

 

For over 3 years, we had to endure the "purist" hype. Then it slipped that there would indeed be a direct engine connection. The eruption of semantic arguing which followed made it clear nothing would be straight forward about the rollout. Sure enough, we got every excuse imaginable about not meeting goals... most notably sales.

The revised Volt sales estimate for 2012 here provided at the start of this year was 45,000. Obviously, that's not going to happen. What should we be expecting for next year?

Currently, the promotion of Volt is focusing solely on "gas saved" numbers. Compared to driving what? And why is there no mention whatsoever of either the quantity of electricity consumed or the resulting smog-related emissions? Leaving out vital detail is rather blatant greenwashing.

With plug-in Prius rolling out to the rest of the country now and plug offerings from other automakers, the draw factors to Volt become even more of challenge. Appealing to middle-market isn't what the trophy-mentality supports. Mainstream consumers have a balance of purchase priorities.

Again, what should we expect? Keep in mind there's a $7,500 price gap which must be overcome before the tax-credit expires, just to maintain status quo. To become more than just a niche within GM's production, sales must increase significantly. Remember, the point is to offer a product which delivers business-sustaining profit.

 

I guess we can expect misinformation from GM haters that have been repeatedly corrected -- I guess that is anti-green washing. There as no claim of 45,000 this year.. as I've pointed out to you before, on Jan 9 it was reported

“We’re going to match production with demand,” Akerson told reporters today following an event in Detroit for the new Cadillac ATS compact car, before the start of the North American International Auto Show. “There’re new variables in the equation, so we’ll see.”​

So we can expect GM to align volt production with demand. Hopefully there will be no more production stoppage because of new vehicle models being added to the line. Those stoppages are what limited Nov Sales. The good thing is that shared production (about 3K Malibus made there last month), improved efficiency and reduces cost.

The point is to develop technology that delivers business-sustaining advantages. The real profit for the Volt may be 4-5 years away, just like it was for the Prius.

 

Car marketing is what it is. Toyota marketed 15 miles of EV range for the PiP and Nissan said 100 miles for the LEAF. Both are possible but most people (and the EPA) get less. There is no denying that GM botched the whole serial vs. blended parallel story. They could have done much better but I'm somewhat sympathetic to the difficulty of introducing new concepts like "EREV" to the general public. Toyota had its own challenges educating people around hybrid tech a dozen years ago and they mostly didn't face the insane partisanship drivel from the GOP that GM has had to deal with.

Around 35,000 Volts have been sold so far since December 2010 and a bit over 50,000 have been manufactured. It's hard to know how well it will sell going forward. Other new plugin cars will dilute the market but also endorse plugin cars as a more mainstream technology.

People will buy the battery size that works best for them. Currently, the Volt is the only plugin hybrid with 40-50 miles of range. EV range is like computer memory -- people sometimes buy less and then find themselves wanting more.

 

Don't remember it or weren't in the green back then? Doesn't matter since it's a red herring now...

That doesn't actually tell us an expectation. It costs money to have too few or too many of a product in inventory. Not being clear about the future hands over spin opportunity to opposing forces.

As for "battery size", that reference seems to identify the market as placing a high priority on EV. Is that correct?

Blending results in very high MPG, even with a modest size battery. The analogy of memory doesn't make sense. If that was meant to be a reference to tablet or mp3 capacity, the shortcome doesn't match since plug-in hybrids multiple capacities (gas & electricity). If the references was to computer, that shortcome doesn't match either since both memory & hard-drive can be swapped out later for larger capacities.

 

It gets more to do what congress wanted.. spur investment in EV/Battery tech.. Its a long term investment strategy to build an industry, not the short sighted view that you seem to have.

I'm doing 27kWh/100miles lifetime and pretty good on gas. And I use the Volt as it was intended, EV for all speeds.. and almost all driving.

Last three months my Overall MPG / and MPG_CS are shown below
(Note Nov was all EV so the 999 and 100MPG_CS are not real data) Both Oct and Dec had airport runs (only time I usually need to use the ICE).

December 2012 163.36 48.15
November 2012 999.00 100.00
October 2012 144.11 42.69​