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No Smart Key! How to Move/Load??

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by SteveWlf, Dec 20, 2012.

  1. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

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    Have a chance at a 2006 Gen2 wreck for parts or repair. It was towed home by a tow truck with wheel lift. Owner isn't sure where the Smart Key is. Daughters' car and tow truck co. nor daughter are sure what happened to Smart Key. Car doors and some windows are open.

    Now, I assume that if the Smart Key isn't in the car, then it will be locked in Park and steering locked as well. (I'm presently driving a 2002 classic and not sure if the steering locks on Gen2s when smart key is removed.)

    I only have a dolly or a trailer with ramps. Either way I need to find a way to get out of park and unlock the steering. I haven't inspected the vehicle in person but figure if the accessory battery is dead, I could jumper at the terminals under the hood.

    Is there anyway to get this Prius into out of Park and release the steering without the Smart Key??

    On a slightly different tack, I have another wreck here that has a working smart key system. I don't suppose there is an easy way to transfer just the reciever module or ECU over to the other car? Nah! that would make it too easy for a car thief! I would expect the smart key system to be VIN specific.

    Going to check it out on Sat. and maybe make the deal.

    Steve
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    After the NHW11, the Prius use an electrically activated parking paw. Speculation, it may be possible to use a 12V battery to release it. There is one member of "Prius Technical Stuff" who has done a couple of salvage NHW20 recoveries and would be my 'go to guy' for such questions.

    I understand the Toyota dealer can create a new key but first the car has to get to the dealer.

    GOOD LUCK!
    Bob Wilson
     
  3. sfv41901

    sfv41901 Masta S

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    No steering lock on the Gen2 & Gen3 for that matter. U can release the parking paw by supplying 12v to either the relay or fuse for it.

    As far as getting another fob to work, it needs to be done at the dealer
     
  4. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

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    Thanks,
    This info is encouraging. At least on the steering. I'll have to ask where the Park Fuse or Relay are located. I only have manuals on the NHW11.
    In the mean time, I have ask the seller to make another effort to get a key from the daughter. Should be a spare around someplace if you look hard enough.
    The weather is not good for a 150 mile tow on trailer or dolly, so I may go and just check it out this weekend. There are a couple other items I need to checkout before I lay out any money.

    Steve
     
  5. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

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    Just got back from looking over the 2006 Prius "Road-Kill". Worse than it appears in the pictures and they neglected to mention that the left front strut had been ripped from the lower control arm. That strut, hub and axle have been removed. The body repairs are "do-able" and less complex than I expect, so in the end it will just about be a wash and I plan to go forward with the deal. What I mention is mostly Nuts & Bolts.
    In the mean time if I just replace the lower control arm and rebolt the strut into the tower, not installing the axle will allow me to roll it onto the trailer or dolly since the differential will allow the right wheel to turn even if the Parking Pawl is engaged. (any way that has been my experience on convetional transaxles.)
    I will check on Ebay for a lower control arm and that is a fairly simple job with the strut and hub out of the way.
    Pictures to follow, next week, when I begin putting Humpty back to gather again.
    Should be a good car since it only has 160k on it and the engine, drive train and systems all seem to be intact. Will need both left side doors and a rear quarter (panel) only. Both door posts look straight and hinges still aligned.

    Still would be helpful to know where that park lock relay or fuse is located. Still holding out hope for the recovery of the OEM Smart Key. I searched all compartments and under the seats with no luck.

    Steve
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    following with interest steve, all the best!
     
  7. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Steve there is a wiring diagram in the "file library" at the bottom of the gen2 forums page. The page you want is the shift interlock page 1 of 1 and transmission interlock page 3 of 5, (basically the same information).

    Hope this helps and good luck with you new project.

    John (Britprius).
     
  8. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    I do not think removing the trans lock is as easy as powering it with 12v as it is a three phase type motor obviously fed from the transmission ECU. The motor pulls out the parking lock.

    It is possible to unbolt the motor lock assembly from the back of the transmission but I do not know how hard it is to get at as it is on the transmission facing the fire wall.

    John (Britprius)
     
  9. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

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    I don't think I will have to deal with the transmission park lock as long as I don't install the left axle. (as a means to move and load the car).
    One thing I am going to try today, when I go there to gather the left strut/hub and wheel. Have to remove the damaged parts and tire, etc.. Anyway, I've been thinking, if that Smart Key is any place in the passenger compartment and I put power to the 12v accessary system, the Smart Key ECU will detect it. Then I will search (again). The interior of the car is filled with all the loose parts that were pickup or off the car after the accident. The tow truck driver sure didn't need the key to open or move the vehicle and the driver was taken away in an ambulence. I'm hoping it turns up in the cleaning out of the car today. I'm holding back $500 on the sale price until they/me find the Smart Key.
    If I go to the dealer, it gonna cost a couple hundred at least and I doubt this small town dealer will have the ability. And if they have to have the car to do this I have to tow it where ever they are. I'm going to check with my favorite locksmith and see if this is "fact or fiction", that only a dealer can program or reprogram these Smart Key fobs.

    Steve
     
  10. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    A good locksmith should have the equipment to be able to program the car to the smart key, and you are correct about not needing the transmission unlocked if you move the car with only one drive shaft installed.
     
  11. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

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    Back from my trip to clean out the car and search for the FOB?? Searched under and over everyplace I could think of. But it's hard when you have people watching and wondering what I'm doing. The bad news is, I didn't find it.

    Then the possible good news. The 12 volt battery was dead so I took a spare battery and jumper cables and hooked up to the terminal under the hood. Wala, a lot of cherps and beeps and relay clicking. Went inside and both display were lit up and stayed lit for about 5 min. I was afraid to try and start the engine, cause it is inside a building, etc.. I noted that the Traction battery was about 80% full and then I looked at the ODO and notice it had 199,878 mile about 40k more than advertised. (but I have too look at the fact that I am driving a car with 279K on the original battery and my other Gen2 has 286K mile, also on the original traction battery). I mentioned the mileage difference to the seller and he was surprised but he only had what his daughter had told me before the wreck and she had been driving for several years after he had purchase it for her. He did mention that the Traction battery had been replace while she had the car and it looked like it might have been removed/replaced.
    Back to the puzzle of the display and control systems. after being on for about 4-5 min. I pressed the start button again to turn things off and see if they would come back on. Nah!. Just the No Key symble, not matter what I did. Hmmm??

    I was running out of time and had to leave but during the 1.5 hr drive home I began to think about the fact that the displays came up without the Smart Key fob. That could only happen if the key fob was in the car. Maybe the little battery in the fob had expired after allowing the displays to come up.

    When I got home I played with my Gen2 and tried to replicate the situation and no way would the display come up if I just pressed the Start button, with the fob inside the house. I brought it outside and put it in the luggage area and the displays would come up and the engine even started. Just as I expected. With everything running, I took the fob back into the house and came back to the car. I would respond to all shifting, etc.. Then I turned it off and again it refused to start.

    Bottom Line, I have to check all possible areas again. maybe between the seat bottoms and backs, or those areas you find change and lint covered candy kisses. Maybe is slipped inside one of those vent ducts under the seats.
    Gotta go back again for another wheel and tire he has at home. I'll take my time and re-search until I find that stupid Smart Key. ( I know that could be said a different way but-----)

    Still got a good deal!

    Steve
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i agree the display won't come up without the fob. however, if the fob battery dies, the car will stay on. otherwise, it might quit while you're driving. did you get the ready light? the display came up without pushing the power button?
     
  13. techntrek

    techntrek Member

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    I have another possible explanation for the system starting - without the FOB. During the factory assembly they may have the need to start the car near the end before any FOB has been programmed to the car. So maybe - maybe - the system will start if it has been disconnected from the 12 volt battery for some long length of time. Which would be the case in a brand new car.

    I'll be replacing the 12 volt battery in my wife's car tomorrow so I may be able to test this.
     
  14. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

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    The displays were on when I came around from hooking up the jumper cable. Never had to push the power button. I think I remember pressing the brake peddle and then pressing the power button once and the display cycled but I don't think I ever got a ready light. I really didn't want to start the ICE nor did I move the gear shift selector.
    I should point out that I normally drive my 2002 classic and not familiar with the intial power up routine. When I was doing my test on my project Gen2 later, I did notice that the the ICE would start and I would get the ready light while the FOB was behind the rear seat.
    I should mention that the car and the FOB had been inactive for over a year. Possibly the little battery in the Fob only had enough juice left to respond to the intial ID signal from the Smart Key ECU then died.
    I sure hope I find that little Fob in there someplace. Sure would be easier and cheaper than towing it around to various dealers or locksmith shops. I guess a few calls would minimize this if it is required.

    Steve
     
  15. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

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    Oh! Yes, I do remember that when I first got into the driver seat the MFD was on with the Toyota Logo on the screen and then it went to the Consumption display as I pressed the Power button. I touched the screen to switch it to the alternate display and see the Traction battery display.
    In retrospect I wish I had the a scanner plugged into the OBD connector. However my scanner won't read the CAN buss. (works in my older Classic though?)

    Steve
     
  16. HaroldW

    HaroldW Active Member

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    By any chance have you looked in the Key slot in the dash. The fob may be in there?H
     
  17. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

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    Yes, but I'll have to admit it wasn't the first place I looked.
    I'm now thinking to continue my search between the seat and the consol and down along the seat tracks. That is were I find the most change when clean out a used car.
     
  18. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    There are a few independent shops (like mine in Boulder, CO) that know how to re-seed the immobilizer and Smartkey system and make the car work when all fobs lost. If you like taking the dash apart you can replace the Smartkey ECU and all related immobilizer bits with a full set of matched smartkey parts from a wrecked Prius. 04 and newer Prius Parts Cars or ebay 2004 2005 Toyota Prius All Computers Set with Smart Key | eBay It's a bit of a PITA to get everything apart and replace them all, plan on 2-4 hours if it's your first time.

    Just for fun call your dealer and ask what they will charge. I've heard some charge $600 or more when all fobs lost...
     
  19. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

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    I contacted the l9cal small town dealer today and they said they could reprogram the system and new FOB for about $350+/-. The labor is $87/hr and the new, dealer provided FOB and key would be $250, so it sounds like about and hour job.
    I ask about programing a previously used FOB and they said it could be done but sometimes it is "touchy/ifie". They would be alright with me providing a "virgin" FOB and key that I find on ebay. I did a quick check and there are "never previously programed" for about $150. so the dealer has about $100 markup.
    I'm still hoping to find the lost FOB in the car. Did a second search the other day and have done everything but pull the seats and carpet out. Once I get the front strut replaced I will still have to tow it home. Then at least I can roll it around and get it on an off the dolly and home to my shop. Then I will be tearing out the interior to accomplish major body repair.

    Steve
     
  20. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Steve, a couple of wild @ss guesses here on the FOB/power up issue:

    Check behind sun visor(s)
    Dad my have the other FOB on his person and was near enough to activate car but then walked out of range