Ford Hybrids' Fuel Economy Failing To Live Up To EPA Ratings?

Well as you can probably see, spwolf took my comments entirely out of context.

Fact - EPA has been hearing about hybrids under performing since the prius arrived

Fact - Magazines have been talking about hybrids under performing mileage tests since prius arrived

Compare Side-by-Side
I did post the 2007 versus epa label. original EPA label was 55 mpg, magazines reported getting in the 30s

prius - label 55 mpg, unverified internet users on fuel economy 46.2
versus
civic - label 32 mpg old, unverified internet users on fuel economy 32.4

We can see why there may have been an out cry in the past. Civic hybrid owners have sued. This issue is not new at all. That was the point I was making.

I also said in my comments the gen 3 prius is still juiced in city mileage, but it is closer today to the epa.

Note when we get to a group with likely similar driving behavior with an ice car the fit gets 35.8 versus current epa of 29 mpg combined.

The other comment I made was that epa seems to think the new ford hybrids are also doing well on the highway test because of higher engine off speed.

Ford has a big PR problem on its hands and is not handling it well. They also have handled acdii very poorly.

None of this is anti-prius. All of it is factual, unless you deliberately take a snippet completely out of context.

Will your mileage vary? Yes it will. I don't get EPA mileage in my prius, as do many others.

Reason - I take many short city trips to lunch. The car has a warm up penalty. I have hills and short trips on the highway. Again the prius does not do well here.

Its not just the tires. Other prius drivers with similar profiles drastically under perform as do those in winter. I did follow up in the fuel economy section. On my aftermarket tires and rims I am 1 - 2 mpg off from bob wilson's graph if I go steady state 55-70 mpg. I may be off as much as 4 in city trips. When these city trips net under 40 mpg versus the labels 51, its easy to understand why I'm getting 8 mpg worse on most tanks. The only time I get around 50 mpg are long trips.

So yes, I am disapointed that some members of this forum seems to shun those of us that actually get worse than EPA.

 

This^^

It would be the only plausible means of enacting Lemon law for this particular case. I just have to PROVE it!

 

Actually the test protocols in J1711, which drive the hyrbid testing, do control for SOC. The basic requirement is that startSOC =endSOC for each cycle, +-1%. There is a correction formula if that failes to be true but is only allowed if the difference is <5%. But that correction formula does badly at correcting highway (because its a biased estimator).

See my post/discusson with references here:
Consumer Reports MPG Result For 2013 Fusion &amp; C-Max Hybrids! | Page 10 | PriusChat

 

I'm finding that the new Fusion is much more a P&G car than anything else I drove. The Ecocruise helps somewhat at higher speeds, for those who never drove a Hybrid, but I found if I can bounce it in and out of EV at 55-60, using short P&G techniques, varying the MPH by 3-4 MPH I can get better FE out of it, still no where near the rated 47MPG, but better than the Ecocruise.

Still working on finding the sweet spot for acceleration to get it up to speed, but once I get it to speed, I am finding it a bit easier to get at least 36 out of it in this cold weather. The drawback, the engine on/off is annoying, you hear grrrr, silence, grrr, silence, grrr, silence.

Even with this, the regen cycle is too aggressive, the car does not coast, it slows when you lift the pedal, so I have to time my stops accordingly so I can get max regen out of each stop, and sometimes I wind up having to give it gas just to make it to the stop sign.

It could still be a combination of aggressive regen, and sticky tires too, I need to test drive a FFh that has the ES tires, and compare them.

 

I am not familiar with gauges your car has, but in my Prius I press on the fuel pedal a bit until I am in EV and using no or a little battery power. It is not a *perfect* glide, but certainly good enough for P&G

Do you have an ICE temp gauge ? I'm curious how your fuel economy changes when the car is warm.

 

It doesn't considering I drove it in 78* weather in FL and got pretty much the same I got up here in 40* weather.

The pedal on the Ford is WAY oversensitive! It takes very little on it to go from EV to ICE. I'm betting Ford will have some new software soon that changes some of the parameters of both the regen and the pedal. I can be in EV, with light pressure and still slow down. I give it a touch more and its back on ICE, and just barely maintaining speed.

 

Does the car have the Prius equivalent of ECO and POWER modes ?

 

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121226/OEM/121229944/ford-hit-with-lawsuit-over-mpg-claims-for-c-max-fusion-hybrids

Ford dealt class-action lawsuit over C-Max, Fusion hybrid mileage claims
.

 

Hmmmmm velly intelesting.

Is 38.8 MPG in 25* weather on a 47 MPG car considered OK? I know in a 41 MPG car it is.

 

Off topic, but any comments here about Ford's 'hybrid games' videos with sports type commentary, including mimic shooting of the 'world renowned professor' and of course bragging about 40% more horsepower with minimal loss if MPGs over Prius liftback.

2013 Ford C-MAX | Hybrid Games | Ford.com


warning, link will take you to Ford's website

 

I thought it was kind of funny, and could be quite effective

Let's think of it in terms of getting the number 2 car traded for the c-max, the honda cr-v. Let's also pretend that for the sake of discussion the cr-v gets epa of 26, the prius v gets epa of 42, and the c-max is really only 38 mpg, well short of epa.

In a year with 15,000 miles versus the cr-v

The prius v would save 219 gallons
The c-max would save 182 gallons
and
the venerable prius would save 276 gallons.

Even handicaping the c-max with a much lower than epa, it still would give its driver about 2/3 of the fuel savings. I don't like the advertising stressing the mpg especially when YMMV, but when we think of fuel consumed even if the c-max doesn't lice up to its epa it does a very good job. If it takes the extra hp and handling to get people into a hybrid, its still a good thing. I also doubt that the c-max is this bad in comparison, most drivers will get a higher percentage of the prius savings.

 

I am beginning to wonder if Ford's new Hybrid system just takes a very long time to break in for some people. Today I recorded my highest trip MPG 39.9, however, traffic was extremely light and I only had a couple lights I had to stop for. Temp is about 30* this morning, so considering how bad my math is, I cant do percentages very well, is 39.9 roughly equal to cold losses from 47? Dont know, but I have heard(like its may or may not be true), that some are getting in the 40's in the cold weather with less than 1000 miles on the car, so WTH is wrong with mine?

BTW, it threw a CEL last night, great, Way to Go Ford! Steerike 2! Ran through the diagnostics screen, no code has been set, so taking it in wont do much good. So now between the crappy MPG, Crappy MyFord Touch, and now a CEL and engine stumble, rumble(misfire), I am really starting to regret buying this car. That Focus is looking so much better now.

 

Ford C-Max December Sales Fall 11% From November! Ford C-Max December Sales Fall 11% From November | C-MaxChat

 

Approx. 17.8%?

 

Well, got a clue today something is wrong. The codes are for misfire and all 4 plugs are soot fouled. They replaced the plugs and taking it for an extended drive. Should know more tomorrow.

If the plugs are fouled, that would mean its using excessive amounts of gas, so something is wrong with a sensor, or something else that is fooling the computer into thinking everything is OK.

Definitely explains the poor FE.

 

I guess, in this case, bad news is actually a good news?

 

Very interesting... but also not a good sign either, for something like that to happen to a brand new car.

Perhaps there is something CR's reliability ratings of Fords. Some folks, mainly those w/unreliable cars or brands (as rated by CR) like to slam their reliability ratings.

 

I really hope all of the low mpg cars are suffering from a problem and its a simple fix. I'd really like for these cars to succeed.

 

Do you have any new details about what is wrong with your C-Max?

 

Its a Fusion, not a Cmax, and nothing yet. I experimented with driving at 2000 RPM and lower and did achieve a 41 on the summary, but it was painful. Takes about a mile to get up to 55. The oil also stinks like it came out of a lawn mower.