PiP/Volt January 7-11 Switcheroo

The charger in the PiP is 2.2 kW, not 3.3 kW. Though at 120V, they both charge at about a 1.2 kW rate.
.

If I can only get a partial charge at work with the Volt (which was the case), I'm then forced to run on gas the rest of my 46 mile commute. The PiP is way more efficient for those 34 miles than the Volt would be.

There are a number of people on here who are doing 24 to 30 miles per day pure electric in a PiP. So I'd say your remark is a bit off.

Fuel efficiency is not the only piece of criteria people consider when choosing a car. For some people it's not even the top 5 or top 10 things to consider. We buy cars for a variety of reasons. Some emotional. Some technical. And some that just defy logic. Just because I choose not to drive a Volt doesn't mean it's a bad car, or a bad choice for someone else. It just means I've chosen a different car for a variety of reasons.

 

Oh, sure, agreed 100%.

 

But he drives aggressively. Remember that Jeff got better numbers driving his Prius. I don't think elevation is the culprit here, driving style is.

 

Unfortunately, I never got a chance to fully charge the Volt for the commute home. This was something I suspected would happen, and happens a lot with the PiP.

There are a variety of reasons why I probably got only 35 miles per charge, but I'd say terrain (lots of hills) and a somewhat heavy foot on the accelerator pedal contributed to it. For the most part I left the climate control system off, so I wasn't using electricity for heat or A/C. I did use the seat heater a lot, and had the fan on low. My typical speed on the highway was between 65 and 72.

 

I assumed they are driving substantially different routes and that Jeff might be getting better numbers (devPrius PiP vs Jeff N PiP) because of the route and more opportunity charging.

 

I may have had a couple of more steep hills to contend with than Jeff did.

 

Thanks!

Did you get a chance to compare your morning commute EV against what green race computes for a Volt?

www.jurassictest.ch/GR/

Also, just to get an idea of your regular driving consumption, is your fuelly data just gasoline? It looks like you capture more data in the notes but I am not seeing a correlation between the notes and the gallons.

 

how do you compare against the green race computed ranges ? (try using the leaf as substitute for the PiP but adjust the battery value)

 

I took a look at that. I constructed my route, added the volt, tweaked a few numbers and it shows that the Volt barely makes it if I do less than 62 mph and stay in ECO mode. If I tweak the max speed to 72 mph, and do a more sporty style of driving (level 5), then I run out of battery (-10.9% remaining) and get about 40 miles of EV range. The reverse commute with the same sporty settings results in an EV range of only 36 miles, and -20% battery remaining. Eco mode says I barely make it home.

 

In the summer I was getting between 10.5 and 11 miles of EV range. Though you were clearly able to exceed the 9 mile estimate that the car was giving you this week.

 

can you see if same driving style settings arrive at the EV miles you get in the PiP? (use the leaf with the battery adjusted since there is not a PiP in the catalog)

I have found the tool to be fairly good at predicting EV range and accessing one's driving style impacts.

I'm also curious if your regular 9 miles of EV on the morning comute is cut short by exceeding 62mph and throwing the balance of the charge into EV assist for your HV miles.

 

I set the Leaf to a battery of 3.2 kWh. With a max speed of 62 mph and an eco setting of 0, I get 10.5 miles of EV range. With a max speed of 72 mph and a setting of 5, I get an EV range of 8 miles. It's somewhat accurate, but the first 1/2 mile of my commute is up a steep hill and the ICE always comes on. Going up a second steep hill on this commute also usually results in the ICE coming on for about a mile. This skews the EV numbers since I'm running in blended mode.

 

Thanks again. Did you set the Volt to 10.4 kWh? Probably should set the PiP (leaf) to 2.8 kWh (?) since these are battery kWh rather than charging kWh.

Did you have more fun with the faster EV acceleration of the Volt ?

I can't wait to put my son on a plane back to college so that I can get the Volt back. Having withdrawals ...

 

Assume 92 mile round trip commute, 10 mile partial charge at work, mileage estimates based on your reports, assuming your reported Prius MPG of 56-57 includes the free boost from plugging in:
Volt: ~46 miles EV (~15 kwhr) + 46 miles gas / 37 mpg = 15/33.7 gallons equiv + 1.243 gallons = 1.688 gallons equiv
PiP: ~18.2 miles EV (~6 kwhr) + 73.8 miles gas / 49 mpg = 6/33.7 + 1.506 = 1.684 gallons equiv

It's really about the same on a energy equivalence basis, you can swing it either way based on driving efficiency in each mode. The Volt can do better on fuel cost esp if you get a TOU EV charging rate, or free/cheap workplace charging. For GHG Volt does better in NorCal given PG&E's much cleaner grid compared to national average.

If you can *never* charge, a PiP is more efficient (based on MPGe) for your round trip commute. Partial charge Volt/full charge PiP makes it about even on MPGe basis, if you could half-charge the Volt the Volt would pull clearly ahead. Also might do a bit better in a 2013 Volt with 5-7% EV range. OTOH more errand driving without compensating charging would favor the PIP.

No, if you read my post carefully, you'll note that I said "double this if workplace charging available". And I do not have workplace charging, so my remarks are accurate.

Certainly I agree with this. But I just hope people refrain from posting the reasons that defy logic. Like: "In the PiP it's way easier to get a full, or nearly full charge, at some point during the day." Anytime you can charge the PiP, you can charge the Volt, and now I know that Volt charges faster on L2. Plus you can leave it on the charger longer usefully sometimes when the PiP is already full. The Volt might not get full/nearly full, but whatever charge you get helps you save gas. More so in the Volt because of the worse CS-MPG. It's the # of kw-hr per day you can top off that matters, not the percentage-full of the battery.

If a particular person prefers PiP because of cargo room/fifth seat, or very short/very long commute, I totally understand the choice. But a person advocating PiP because of shorter charging time, empty to full, is being illogical.

 

Let's use the actual efficiency he reported and the 63.6% EV ratio. For 455.4 miles, 289.6 miles would be on EV and 165.8 miles on HV.

Jeff has stated he got about 26 kWh/100mi so 278,6 EV miles would consume 75.3 kWh or 2.234 gallon(e).

To cover 165.8 HV miles at 40.52 MPG, it would take 4.092 gallon.

455.4 miles / 6.326 gallon(e) = 71.99 MPGe composite.

That's 4.72 MPGe short of 76.71 MPGe he got with PiP.

 

Let's assume Jeff has more fun driving his Volt every day and whips it around a little more than he did devprius's PiP.

Unfortunatly, the Volt doesn't immediatly tell you your foot is a little heavy by turning on the gas engine. It waits about 35 miles and then turns on the gas engine.

Jeff can probably make some nice change on the weekends restoring the EV range estimate on PiPs.

 

Do you not see having smaller battery (and electric propulsion) enables higher CS MPG?

Volt benefits more from the duration of charges. PiP benefits more from the intervals (more often) of charges. There are only 24 hours a day and L1 can barely recharge Volt twice.

Your statement is true if two owners (with different commute miles) go over their expected driving range. For example, a typical Volt owner would have 35 miles commute and PiP owner would have 11 miles. Opportunity charges extend EV miles if the owners go over their typical driving range.

However, if someone is looking to choose between PiP or Volt (with 20 miles driving range), PiP will benefit from opportunity charges but the Volt will not.

Additional opportunity recharges can increase more EV miles. Sitting on a partial charge unused will not give you back the 5th seat, higher CS MPG, the ability to run on regular gas, or the extra money you paid for bigger battery.

That's the fundamental differences. EV range is something you can mitigate. The trade-offs that Volt took cannot be mitigated, well you can replace with another car.

 

usbseawolf2000, you seem to be challenged by simple math and this entire thread seems to be frustrating you more than usual.