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2001 Prius with 266k miles....Sacramento CA

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by JeffRay, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. JeffRay

    JeffRay New Member

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    This has been a very good car for us. We've had it since '03 with 30k. Problems have been minimal, till now. The 'check engine' light came on several months ago, and we were unable to afford the repairs. We used it as a 65 miles per day commuter car, mostly at highway speeds. The mileage has dropped off abruptly from the long-term 42 mpg down all the way to 24. There is a nasty vibration on startup. It lasts for maybe 30 seconds and then calms down. We are now at a place where we can do the repairs, but I'm looking at the mileage and wondering 'When is it going to die?'

    Wondering how many of this model get to 300k, 400k, or higher. I brought it in to a local repair shop and dropped $350 to clear some of the codes that were showing (P0300, P0302, P0303, P0304, P0171, P0190, P0100. Air flow sensor was replaced and P0300, P0302, P0304, P0171 codes came back. The vibration didn't go away. So I asked 'Hey, how much is this going to cost to cost me to get the mileage back up? Got 'We don't know. We just have to keep attacking it and see what happens. Some codes that aren't showing now may come back on.' The answer did NOT impress me. It felt like they were just going to prolong this as far as possible.

    So I'm going to have to make a decision if the repairs are worth it. If I can find that this often gets 400k it is of course worth it. Maybe I just need a new mechanic that is going to give me a straight up answer. My concern is that I may need to spring for a $2-$3k repair to get the mileage back up, only to find other major parts fail. The answer is probably in the forums somewhere, but time is always a factor unfortunately. I'm of course aware that no two cars will be exactly the same.
     
  2. SteveLee

    SteveLee Active Member

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    I don't think we have any solid answers on the life span of the Prius. We haven;t gotten that far yet. Lots of 200,000+ and the 300,000 mile club is increasing. I'm thinking it depends on how it's maintained and how long someone wants to keep replacing the occasional worn out or failed part. Even the typically high dollar parts are coming down in price with used parts increasing in salvage yards from wrecks. 300,000 - 400,000 is looking more likely all the time.

    These links may help.

    OBD-II Trouble Code: P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected

    OBD-II DTC: P0171 System Too Lean (Bank 1)
     
  3. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    DTC P0171 means that the fuel/air mixture is lean. Since you replaced the mass air flow sensor, there might be a leak in the air induction system below the throttle plate, a PCV hose might be loose, a fuel injector might be bad, the fuel pump might not be maintaining proper fuel line pressure, or the oxygen sensor upstream from the catalytic converter might be marginal.

    DTC P0300, P0302, P0304 mean that the engine is misfiring, especially cyls 2 and 4. When were the iridium spark plugs last replaced? If more than 60K miles ago, all four should be replaced now. If the engine continues to misfire then the spark igniters and fuel injectors for cyls 2 and 4 should be swapped with the parts from cyls 1 and 3 (do this one part at a time) to see whether the misfire will move around to a different cylinder or stay put.

    Regarding how likely is it that your Prius will get to 300K or 400K miles, it depends how lucky you are, and how much money you are willing to put into repairs. It is certainly likely that you will face a four-digit repair bill of some sort before reaching that odometer reading.
     
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  4. JeffRay

    JeffRay New Member

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    Thanks for your answers. It helps to understand the problem. I wish I was more competent as a DIY wrencher, but I'm not equipped with the base knowledge. I'm more able to ask the right questions now. I'd like to be the first to 500k......to the moon and back! I have no problem with replacing the occasional part, a few hundred here and there once or twice a year. It is just this type of open ended situation where they can't say how much it will cost.
     
  5. scotman27

    scotman27 Active Member

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    I would start by replacing the plugs, does it go away. If not, there is a clip with the write that go to each of the coil packs on to of the spark plugs, take the wires off of cylinder 2, start it. Sites it sound the same. Shut it off, plug the wires back in. do the same for cylinder 4. If there is a difference. Replace the coil pack for that cylinder
     
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  6. scotman27

    scotman27 Active Member

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    Its.gotta be something simple, it sounds like it. A misfire will vibrate, and cause poor fuel mileage because the rest of the engine has to make up for the cylinder with no spark. And you have to put more into the pedal to get more power, more power means more fuel, hence, poor
    mileage
     
  7. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    Replace the spark plugs (at least remove and inspect them). You may find one not even screwed in and flopping around. Symptoms sound very similar to a car I saw running with 3 plugs, car still drove, but crappy mileage and lots of vibration at idle speed.
     
  8. JeffRay

    JeffRay New Member

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    Thanks for the replies. I checked the plugs and they had deposits that didn't fit any of the pictures I found. So I brought it to a mechanic to get his take on this.

    There was the smell of engine coolant. So he pressurized the cooling system. The pressure was bleeding off, maybe a couple of psi in an hour or so. He looked in the cylinders and found engine coolant. The deposits on the plugs is likely engine coolant. That is what is making it run so rough with the misfires.

    So the options as they were given to me....
    1. Pay for 12 hours time and hope the head gasket is all that needs to be replaced.....best case around $1500 fix.
    2. Pay for more.....if the head is cracked. Won't know till (half of 12 hours) it is stripped down and inspected. And then hope the lower engine holds up.
    3. Replace the engine with a used engine with a lot fewer miles than the 266k I have on this. Might run $2k-$3k.
    4. Put some Alumaseal or equivalent in along with some new plugs of less expensive variety than the iridium plugs and run it till it drops.
    5. Take it to the dealer, be honest about the problems, and try to get something in trade for another vehicle. I need to sleep at night, so will not use method 4 and try to sneak it by for it to be someone else' problem.

    I am not a mechanic, but the way it was explained to me makes sense. I'm going with option 4 for now, maybe using option 5 in a month or two. I can at least use the car for local trips where it won't hurt us if it dies. He was honest and said that I was probably making the right choice. I have AAA to get it to a junk yard if need be. In the meantime I have a car for local trips only, at 24 mpg. It beats running my Dodge 2500 at 16.5 mpg.

    I'm open to other ideas here, but looks like this vehicle isn't going to see 400k without a lot of $$$$ being spent. If any of you are in the Sacramento area and looking for a project car give me a shout.
     
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  9. SteveLee

    SteveLee Active Member

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    I would think you might be able to replace that engine for less than 2-3k. A quick search found several 05-09 engines below 100,000 mi. for $300 - 500. salvagepart.JPG
     
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  10. scotman27

    scotman27 Active Member

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    Damn if you were near pa I would take that car off your hands. I can do an engine job no problem. And not at no $1500, that is rape. If you wanna take it to a yard they may give you 350 for it as scrap. Not worth it. I would give you at least 750+ as is.
     
  11. scotman27

    scotman27 Active Member

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    An engine gasket job no parts, about 300 labor if If did it because I enjoy doing stuff like this. Like mentioned above you can get a whole engine. 300 - 500 don't scrap it, plenty of life left
     
  12. JeffRay

    JeffRay New Member

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    Darn Scotman,
    Wish CA and PA were the same state. I'd hook up with you in an hour.
     
  13. JeffRay

    JeffRay New Member

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    Labor rates out here $85+
     
  14. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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    I suggest when your ready the dealer can scrap the car for $500 or so and buy a new car or a newer used car with a warranty and go another 10 years. There are great deals out there from Toyota and very low financing. Just my opinion. :)
     
  15. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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    Let us know how you make out.
     
  16. scotman27

    scotman27 Active Member

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    An engine gasket job no parts, about 300 labor if If did it because I enjoy doing stuff like this. Like mentioned above you can get a whole engine. 300 - 500 don't scrap it, plenty of life left
     
  17. scotman27

    scotman27 Active Member

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    I wonder how much freight is to get it here, my gears are turning. grins
     
  18. scotman27

    scotman27 Active Member

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    I live at home, work for costco. I work on cars on the side. And I don't charge n no 85 an hour, no reason to
     
  19. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    While good used Prius engines are still readily available for cheap it makes no sense to replace head gasket and/or rings on a tired Prius engine. Easier/cheaper to swap the entire engine, or sell the car to someone who wants a project. Note, used lowish mileage engines are getting harder to find and prices will go up during the next year or two as demand increases...mark my words...

    BTW, the same engine was used 2001-2009 so you can even get an 09 engine and put it in your 01. (some external parts are different and need to be swapped but the long block including throttle body etc is the same)
     
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  20. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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    Man that is a project but cheaper than a new car. :)
     
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