GM Diesel Cruze MPG Shortfall?

I wouldn't read too much into it until the spec's are released from GM. While hwy mpgs may be similar or a bit higher, I'll bet city mpgs will be much higher and combined mpg rating will reflect that. The only way to get more range is via larger fuel tank or higher mpg's or combo of both.

 

are they selling this in the u.s.?

 

The 2014 model will have the diesel option.

 

thanks! are there any other big 3 diesel cars?

 

The Jeep Grand Cherokee will also have it. Don't know of any other smaller cars that will. You probably already heard the 2014 Mazda 6 will have a diesel option too. Let's see if GM is in for the long haul on diesel availability - will they cancel it if sales don't hit a certain target?

 

It's a bit of a YMMV thing with diesels. I always got better fuel mileage in the TDI's than they were rated.

 

You are not alone, it's a fairly consistent pattern. Hypermilers applaud because a diesel will make it easy to Drive With Load, but they aren't cheering too hard because it'll be another 2.0L diesel and they're eying the European 1.6L diesels enviously.

The more interesting question is WWVWD? (What will VW do?) Now that other companies are going to start trying to steal their CAFE cow, they'll need to react. As if by magic a Jetta Hybrid appears!

It's really good news, with GM, Mazda and Fiat-Chrysler all adding diesels in the next couple of years. Give it another few years and I think there'll be more.

 

Watch how many TDI owners will drop them just because of the way they've been treated by VW when they were the only game in town.

 

That's like congratulating someone who worked hard for a decade to become an overnight success.

Diesel (engine only) was doomed from the day hybrids rolled out. It was far too dirty and simply could not compete with ever-improving battery technology. It was destined to become a filler option as the transition away from traditional gas vehicles progressed, then be replaced by a hybrid of some sort. With automakers like Toyota, Ford, and Honda all striving to deliver a plug-in hybrid with an affordably-sized battery along with a no-plug counterpart, there wasn't any magic. It was inevitable that VW joined in, starting with a gas hybrid.

Diesel (engine only) quite simply cannot compete with the +75 MPG some of use are now experiencing, especially with a PZEV emission rating.

Resale values were artifically high as a results of having so few available. As the market gets diluted by more choices, they'll drop.

 

To which I would add:

• Atkinson cycle - this provide diesel-like expansion ratio for high BSFC.
• Variable intake valve angle AND duration - which eliminates the last throttle plate losses.
• Direct injection - which may widen the liquid fuel options. I don't see it as making a significant BSFC improvement.

Diesel's fail because of the problem with NO{x} reduction. This comes directly from their 'burn lean' requirement under high pressure and temperature. I just don't see EGR resolving this problem.

Bob Wilson

 

I knew somebody would come in and say that.

Hybrids are less still than 3% of the market and compete in segments with near 60% of the market. There's a reason for that small size and it's not the price.

Diesel cars in the USA have one mainline manufacturer and quite frankly that manufacturer has a poor reputation both for reliability and the dealers. So there's every reason to believe the diesel market will grow as other manufacturers enter the market. In fact, I think the potential for diesel is greater than the potential for hybrids.

In the long run, though, I think that diesel's tougher competition will actually be plug-ins.

 

Its' not a Blutech diesel as in the European products. Also, this being a Gm product, history could very well repeat itself. (remenber in 70's - 80's era of GM diesel cars )

DBCassidy

 

And let's not forget that NO{x} are higher from bio-diesel. With that being an emission problem already and particulate emissions really starting to get attention, the place for diesel in passenger vehicles becomes less certain... as if the higher per-gallon fuel price wasn't deterent enough.

 

Yep,

Weekly, I am facing the higher per-gallon fuel price: when food shopping. Of course the higher food prices also come from the corn grown not for food consumption, but ethanol production. .

DBCassidy

 

GM missing expectations that they have set by themselves? Wow... is there any other way for GM to operate? PR about the greatest product in the world and end up with mediocre product .

 

How effective of an argument against hybrids do you think that will be going forward?

It's rapidly becoming weak as the Prius family grows. Seeing so many on the road is far more of an endorsement to accept than a statistical percent. Ownership sends a powerful message.

We've witnessed a clear change in priorities recently... the importance of efficiency. The emergence of plug-in hybrids pushes regular hybrids deeper into the mainstream than any monetary incentive could. It sends a very clear message that hybrids are indeed the next step in automotive evolution, not a niche as the greenwashing had persistently claimed.

The perception of the market expanding strong, making it very difficult now to argue against.

 

As to diesel and hybrids, there were some diesel questions asked to the father of prius in Japan, there was some conference about Toyota hybrids.

As Mazda is starting to sell their diesels there, low emissions and generally nice engines, question is why not pair them both - answer was that due to emission regulations, price of diesel hybrid would be too expensive. Not that we didnt know it, but it was still interesting.

 

so what is the reason for 3% of the market then? Enlighten us?

 

It's because a lot of people don't like how they drive. If more people liked the driving experience they'd be all over them and ready to justify the price with TCO. Hybrid consideration is at record levels. Sales are increasing. But still, the market share isn't climbing with the consideration.

I like driving the Prius. But my wife doesn't like driving the Prius, her best friends don't like driving the Prius, my close colleague doesn't like driving the Prius, a friend of a friend owns a Prius but he never drives it to social occasions.

The Prius family is selling well, but it's pretty obvious that the C Max is eating into the market, particularly that of the Prius v because of the driving dynamics and comfort. But that improved driver experience eats into the fuel economy.

Now go read posts by ex-TDi owning Prius owners and the pattern you see is:
1. Loved driving the TDi
2. Hated the repair bills
3. Bought a Prius

That's not to say that diesel doesn't compete with hybrids, but as I see it, the diesel market has a greater potential size in the USA than in the hybrid market both because of driving preferences and because there are no challenges to having diesels with 4WD or tow ratings. VW's diesel premium is currently excessive, as European differentials show, and the coming of Euro VI and the use of SCR (as will be found on the Cruze) means a lower barrier to entry into the US market. That lowered barrier is allowing other manufactures to dip their toe into the dirty water and as the competition increases, so will the market size.

But I'm still hoping that battery prices will drop so plug-ins can take over.