The C - A Gutless Snow Machine

Some people are just able to drive on ice better than others. Being from Ohio I got a ton of experience whereas these country boys with their big trucks see it maybe every 4 years or so and even then for only a week.

 

Yes, absolutely, 4wd is definitely better when you need to get unstuck from deep snow, mud, dirt, sand, etc. No doubt about it. But what I said above was the that in normal driving, (not getting unstuck) the type and condition of your tires, and how you drive, plays a larger roll in whether or not your tires will lose their grip in the snow, while driving, than does how many wheels are powered.

 

The finest snow car I ever had was a 2005 BMW 325XI. That sucker was a tank. But so far my C is doing just fine. Course, the snows this year have not been that big a test, but so far so good and am loving the 50+ mpg.

 

?

 

It's a common misconception that the more the total weight, the better (as in, "big heavy truck"); and another misconception that tires should be narrow for snow traction. If these were true, snowmobiles (skidoos, snow machines) would be built as heavy as possible, with tiny, narrow treads. Regarding the usefulness of weight on ice, a WW II clip aired some years ago comes to mind: a Sherman tank (~ 66,800 lbs) helplessly sliding sideways on an almost-imperceptible but icy slope in some European village. Weight over the traction wheels as a fraction of total vehicle weight helps propulsion, but given some total contact patch (e.g., that of all four wheels), the less weight the better. That's why letting air out of tires helps--it decreases the weight/surface-area ratio--and why skinny tires have less traction than wide ones, regardless of the medium. Snow that's shallow enough to allow digging one's way to pavement is a special case. As for ice, see Tank, Sherman.

 

Comparing the C (or any road vehicle) to tracked vehicles designed to shoot explosives and snowmobiles designed to travel over snow several feet deep is like comparing apples to hand grenades.

 

In what way? Your analogy needs detail.

Whether a vehicle is military or even whether it is tracked is not to the point. The point about weight is its relation to the area of contact between tire (or track) and the surface on which it moves. On ice and snow as on other surfaces, adding mass increases traction, but equally increases resistance to acceleration and deceleration. The result typically is a wash. Adding to the area of the contact patch, as by letting air out, increases traction without increasing inertia.

In regard to the results of weight/area ratios, tracked and wheeled vehicles behave the same. Not only tanks slide, but also tractor-trailers, as in a recent YouTube video of one travelling down a highway sideways on snow and ice and demolishing a small van--which had been perfectly under control.

 

Think of the savings to tax payers. States, Counties, and Towns could halt winter maintenance of roads.

 

That's what I said. Mr. Incredible just did a much better job. Thank you!

 

Snowmobiles are designed to float on feet of snow, not slice through inches of snow to access grippy pavement like a car. Narrow tires win on a car in snow. I dare you to go buy wide snow tires and give them a go on snowy roads; you'll quickly learn your thought experiment doesn't override real-world experience.

Go read up the technical bits on Tire Rack. Also, watch some WRC. You'll see they use wide tires on tarmac, and narrow tires in snow. They're not doing it to be cute; they're doing it to go as quickly as possible.

 

Thanks Ryephile. Actually, I'd already looked at Tire Rack, as well as a number of discussions on the topic, and find opinions vary widely. Someone else mentioned WRC & said that they use narrow tires because they're studded and can dig through to pavement. I think, as an Alaskan observed in a discussion elsewhere, that the answer comes down to snow depth: if it's shallow enough to dig through, narrow's better; if not, wide is.

 

in toronto, ontario we just got our first big snowfall of the year. with snow tires on my car, i was able to drive out of a 1.5 foot snow drift that accumulated around my car parallel parked on the street. and this was with vehicles on both sides, so i had no "run up" room. through for sure i was gonna need a shovel and sand. then, driving down the street i pretty much plowed the road with the c's low front end.

realistically, the smartest thing in shitty weather is to avoid driving as much as possible. but that said i found my c handled as well as could be hoped from a car of its stature.

 

Getting slammed here in the east coast. I must say, even without winter tires, the PC is decent in the snow. Breaking is very scary if you do not give enough room. People just need to slow down and give enough time to stop. I definitely found out what the limits of this vehicle is. Overall, not bad at all. This is the only time that I miss my Pathfinder. I've driven in pretty crappy weather, but nothing helps but good 'ol common sense in these kind of conditions. Sometimes, it's just better to stay inside.

 

The winter storm here in Toronto is terrible and I had a frightening time driving my c to and from work today. I have new winter tires, Hankook iPikes, and it was so hard getting traction. I could barely sustain speeds above 50km/h in regions with just a few centimetres of fresh snow. I'm so dismayed by the winter performance even with snow tires that I will stay in from work the next storm. It was just too dangerous for me to be on the road. I never had fear driving in winter with my old Mazda 3, but the c is like driving a tin can on the road. Is something wrong with my snow tires perhaps?

 

i was out in that storm too, about 1.5 feet of snow here..
got stuck in my driveway which wasnt shovled, but rocked it out.
then driving it was pretty decent.
decent enough i decided to do some cross boarder shopping today in the storm.
i dont have snow tires on my C, just the tires that came with it

i never felt in danger at all, speeds up to 90 on an unplowed highway (QEW/405)

and only drifted into a snowbank once.. due to my own stupidity and doing what i like to call extreme roundabout on a traffic circle hah ( if you watch the show departures you will know what that is)

passengers actually remarked about how good my little car was in the snow

 

Maybe it's my snow tires, perhaps they're low in air pressure. What psi do you guys recommend for snow tires on the c?

[update] please reply to my question in this thread: Snow Tire pressure question | PriusChat