Which Plug-in Is Best For You

Source: Right Electric Range For A Plug-In Hybrid: Is Lower Better?

Missing from the article is any reference to the engine-only mileage. Given the problem Ford owners are reporting with MPG, it feels awkward to use the EPA numbers but that is the most likely information a new car buyer is likely to have.

The article mentions interior volume but omitted seat count, something obvious to the new car buyer.

Also omitted, not every plug-in is available in every market, just yet. For any market comparison to be valid, only equally available states should be considered.

Still, a market is opening up and that is a good thing. It will be interesting to see how the three newbies stack up against the Volt and Prius Plug-In. As recently as two years ago, plug-ins where a 'home-grown', after-market business.

Bob Wilson

 

The article also failed to mention the new phenomena, "Gas Anxiety" ... where plug-in's dread when the ICE fires up. As Bob says, the true MPG's then make the dread either not so bad, or not so good, turning on which plugin you got. The ancilary phenomena then comes into play .... plugin's ICE'ing free public charging, to the detriment of users that suffer from NO ice available. Fortunately, more & more public EVSE stations are charging enough that less & less plugin's are using them.
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I don't think gas anxiety has nothing to do with mpg of gas. All of these plug-ins get good gas mileage compared to ice only cars once the battery runs out. People don't like the ice turning on daily trips. That makes the acceleration firing of the prius phvs ice almost worse. I expect gen II plug-ins to do more about gas anxiety.

Do you see plug-ins taking up lots of the plug-in spots where you live?

 

I would not minimize 'gas anxiety' as I was at the Court House last year registering my airplane. I was also sharing how I used my wife's Prius to tow the plane on a pontoon boat trailer home. One of the other clerks asked me,"How often do you have to plug it in?"

This is just a variation of 'gas anxiety' as he did not realize we don't plug-in our Prius.

Bob Wilson

 

If I am reading correctly then I would disagree.

With my 100 mile R/T commute I would have a bit of anxiety if I owned a CMAX Energi and the ICE fired up vs. owning a PIP. The thought of dropping from "infinite" mpg to 50-55mpg is bad enough but dropping down to 35mpg is even scarier! LOL

 

My criteria for range is the largest battery at the lowest cost. My car is stationary and parked in my garage or at work some 20 hours a day in front of a 110 volt outlet. Ideally, I want a battery that takes 10 hours to fully charge on a standard outlet. Above 16 kwh is where there is a spike in costs for me due an L2 charger installation requirement.

It would seem that a Chevy Volt meets my range criteria. Unfortunately, the 4 people seating capacity made me lean toward the PiP instead. Nissan can make 5 people seating with a 24 kwh battery in a smaller vehicle so it is unacceptable to expect less than that.

 

If you have gas anxiety, you would have anxiety in all of the plug-ins but the tesla 60kwh+

I am not sure what actual mileage would be, but IIRC the ford energi gets EPA 41 hwy, volt 40 hwy, prius phv 49 hwy. Say the fords and chevy get only 90% of epa and toyota gets all of it. I assume you are mainly highway, if not the fords seem to do better. The prius phv would use 1.8 gallons, energi 2.1, volt 1.7, prius liftback 2. Not much difference. If you are traveling 100 mile a day its not much of an advantage to buy any of these phevs.

Now what about if you are going 20 miles a day - prius phv .2 gallons, energi 0 gallons, volt 0 gallons, prius liftback .4 gallons. That is where the gas anxiety is felt. Even in 10 mile stretches the phv ice fires under certain conditions. The volt has a long enough range that many do run electric most days and get more anxiety when the ice fires up

 

MPG for trip. Crossover is the distance needed where the PiP mpg goes ahead of the CMax.

Using 41 CMax and 49 PiP the crossover distance is 62 mile trip.

Using 39 CMax and 50 PIP the cross distance is 50 mile trip.

 

oh heck yea ... All of the corporate buildings - strip malls excetera get iced by plugins (or non plugins) around here if they're free. But charge 2 bucks an hour and the plugins run like someone's got the plague.

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Hummm, $2/$3 ~= 0.66 gal or about 33 miles in my 52 MPG Prius. So free parking and no parking meter 'anxiety' or plug-in and start paying for the privilege. That 52 MPG Prius begins to look a lot more flexible.

Bob Wilson

ps. I've been on 'shopping' trips with my wife before. Wear comfortable shoes and bring reading material.

 

Bob I think somebody posted this before but once a genII Prius and a Volt both travel 70 miles or more straight through, the Prius mpg actually exceeds the Volts. So the mileage champ turns on how far your average daily commute is. And for that matter what your pocket book will allow.

 

i only have gas anxiety when i'm not sure whether i can complete the trip in ev. when i know i'm going to need gas, i'm comfortable knowing i can get 70-75 mpg's gas only. but i always want more ev, it's incredible.

 

I have no idea if either get epa, but - volt 38 mile range + 37 mpg combined after, gen II prius 46 mpg combined. The gasoline cross over is 194 miles if you don't count electricity, about 120 miles if you use 33.7kwh/gallon equivalent. Work out your own numbers if you think the epa's are wrong.

I do think that iceing of the spots if they are with prius phvs could easily be solved by charging for the spot. Locally there is a small 6 month fee here, and lots of empty spots, but..... there are many fewer plug-ins here than in southern California. Anyway you cut it range is a factor as well as number of seats, cargo area, and after CS mpg. The CS mpg is much more important if your CD range is well under your daily mileage.

 

Uh folks,

I was observing the effect of a "$2/hr" fee for parking in a charging spot. If the alternative is a free spot, it really puts a 'hurt locker' on any remote, recharge. It is approximately 2/3 gal.

Bob Wilson

 

I think you need to look at it from the pov of those subsidizing the spots. I don't think they want phevs "icing" the spots from bevs that are trying to be encouraged. There ought to be a price where people don't buy phev's with really small batteries with the intent to of blocking all the spots with free power. Now different places will have different charges. In most cities $2/hr isn't much for parking during the day for a spot without even a charger.

For cars like the tesla S, focus bev, 2013 leaf - they can charge at 6.6 kw. If they need public chargers 10% of the time, 33 cents per kwh is not a very high price to pay to make sure you have enough power to make it to the destination. Where I live the chargers are $2/hr or $25/6 months. The fee can be smaller than in southern California because there are fewer cars in the system and commutes are shorter.

Just for the statiticians out there
Austin Energy surpasses 10,000th plug-in charge at public stations

Now the purpose of the inexpensive program is to get people into plug-ins that they charge at work and home, but use the public chargers for safety and opportunity.

 

My screw-up - on multiple levels. First, a typo ... should be Gen III.
Even so, the #'s don't work out, and I'd never worked the numbers after hearing that tidbit.
Back of the napkin;
If Both Prius/Volt burn through 2.7 gallons of gas -
At 51mpg the Prius travels appx 138 miles
At 37mpg the Volt travels appx 100 miles + 38EV
Doesn't that mean after a 138 mile trip there's a similar amount of gas burned? (gives no value to electricity) Both pay for 2.7 gallons, + the Volt pays for electricity, appx 10kWh's (?)
So maybe where I read about a "70 mile" trip being a break even was representing a "one way trip" ... 140 mile round trip .... at which point the standard Gen "III" becomes more cost effective than a 38EV mile plugin. (not accounting for electricity cost).

You'd really want to find a place to charge at the end of 70 miles. Or WOULD you. $2/hr for 3hrs of charge is roughly 50% more costly than gas. There's the dilemma.

 

That sounds much better. If you are going 140+ miles between charge ups, the prius liftback is likely to use less gas than a volt, depending on how you drive.

The local utility whose blurb I included found that at least here 90% of plug-in drivers go less than 40 miles a day. They are part of a federal monitoring program to help figure out charging habits. Since toyota doesn't sell prius phvs in texas, Its likely that the teslas I see are going for those longer daily drives. If you are doing 70 mile drives around austin, the odds are you have paid $25 for 6 months of public charging. In places where charging is more expensive you might fill that volt with gas instead of charging at your stop at 70 miles We do need to build the DC infrastructure between austin/Dallas and Austin/Houston so cars like the leaf can make it.

 

I did a parallel drive this past summer from Austin to Houston with my Volt and my Gen II Prius. 180 miles and I used less gas in the Volt for the trip. Getting 43mpg hwy on the Volt is pretty standard and I think I got right at 50 miles of EV on that trip.

 

If you are looking at long drives, its far more likely they are on highway in which case Prius is 48MPG EPA and Volt is 40MPG EPA, so 2.7gallons would be 129.6 and in the Volt it would be 38+108=146.

Both Prius and Volt drivers (like John) can get better then EPA if they drive carefully and slower. Neither will be EPA at 75mph. I had multipel summer trips with 50miles per charge and 50miles per gallong. But friday my airport run was 40MPG and 40 miles on the charge, but winter temps always impact both too.

Either way the tradeoff is someowere over 120miles.. in which case its also about the quality of your drive time, family your needs (5 seats), and their real-world efficiency at the drivers speeds/style than the small difference in fuel used.