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2 Trip Pairs, With/Without Emphasis on EV

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by CaliforniaBear, Feb 25, 2013.

  1. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    I understand the physics of EV being less efficient than ICE because of conversion losses. However, it would appear that how you get the battery charge may tilt the balance one way or the other. I made two trip pairs, the first of each pair "just driving" where a fair amount of EV was selected by the computer, the second of each pair I encouraged the computer to select EV and sometimes accelerated slower and went slower than the speed limit to stay in EV. The trips are in 40 to 45 mph zones so you would expect good mpg and some amount of EV operation.

    I live near the top of a hill, the first mile of a trip nicely charges the HV battery 2 to 4 bars depending on where it started. The return trip does much the same with the ICE running at 2400 RPM and 90% or more Engine Load.

    1st Trip Pair:
    1st Trip: Start with SOC 5 bars, drive 14 miles, display 57.8 mpg, end SOC 5 bars.
    2nd Trip: Start with SOC 5 bars, drive 14 miles, display 70.7 mpg, end SOC 5 bars.

    2nd Trip Pair:
    1st Trip: Start with SOC 5 bars, drive 5.5 miles, display 56.4 mpg, end SOC 6 bars.
    2nd Trip: Start with SOC 6 bars, drive 5.5 miles, display 73.5 mpg, end SOC 5 bars.
    Yes, EV did cost 1 bar, easily made up the next time down the hill.

    My conclusion is "Use EV when its convenient it will have a positive effect on mpg" This should be true for moderate speeds in areas with some hills or "pulse and EV" in flat areas.
     
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  2. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    Isn't this too strong conclusion after this one pair of uneven driving samples?
     
  3. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    Actually its two pairs of driving samples :)
    It certainly doesn't support the "EV will ruin your mpg" theory. I don't see how running these same tests 10 times is likely to change the results. Its pretty obvious how things are going as you make each trip.
     
  4. xpcman

    xpcman Senior Member

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    sometimes accelerated slower and went slower than the speed limit to stay in EV


    So you didn't drive the same way so it is not a valid test. What you proved is that entelegent use of EV mode will increase MPG.
     
  5. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    That is Exactly what I wanted to prove! Intelligent use of EV operation will increase MPG. So you agree with my results and both tests (2 times the same route) were Scientifically Valid.

    Note: This is encouragement of EV with gas pedal operation. It does not mean, or use, the EV mode button.
     
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  6. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    I misread your study. Sounds like you have 2 paired samples. Shouldn't be difficult to get p value to claim your scientific validity. Now, even if your p value is significant it could just mean slower driving yield higher MPG, that we already know.
     
  7. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    Unfortunately the amount of time you spend at signals, not using any gas, affects the average speed. As I remember the "encourage EV" was actually a little faster average mph but only about 1 mph so that wouldn't make much difference.

    The main idea behind this experiment was to argue against the "avoid EV" warning often expressed. Yes there are conversion losses but they can be compensated for by charging the battery when the ICE is running at good efficiency which will be especially true during acceleration or going up hill in moderate speed limit areas. In higher speed limit areas EV isn't really a choice if you want to maintain the higher speeds.

    What I call "pulse and EV" is clearly less efficient than "pulse and glide" but it does improve mpg and it allows a more conventional speed pattern.
     
  8. Jzerocsk

    Jzerocsk Member

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    There was recently a brief discussion with this on reddit...one thing that was pointed out is that when the SOC is high, the PSD will use the MGs to help turn the wheels when the ICE is running. When the SOC is low, the PSD will divert the MG power to charge the HV battery, leaving the ICE to do all of the driving.

    So even though the SOC isn't dropping so low that the ICE kicks on just to recharge it, there must be a SOC point where allowing it to fall too low causes more harm than good.

    Is there a fixed cutoff, and does anyone know what it is?
     
  9. macman408

    macman408 Electron Guidance Counselor

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    In general, the computers will target 60% SoC. For a given accelerator position, there is a noticeable difference in engine RPMs below 58% and above 62% or so. However, I don't think it tends to charge or discharge faster when it gets further from the magic percentage; e.g. it'll tend to draw about 10 amps while accelerating and the battery is at 65% SoC, and it'll tend to draw 10 amps while accelerating and the battery is at 78% SoC (nearly full).
     
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