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2003 Prius - 218k Burning Oil?

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Hinoserm, Mar 6, 2013.

  1. Hinoserm

    Hinoserm Junior Member

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    2003 Prius
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    Hello,

    The other day (Monday) I purchased this 2003 Prius with 218,000 miles. I had accessed the service records via the Toyota website and checked the Carfax report, and did a whole lot of reading about what I should expect from a Prius with this many miles on it. I thought that the price was reasonable ($3800 incl tax and tags from a small town dealer) and aside from a few dents and a problem with the radio the vehicle seemed to be in good shape. I've put about 500 miles and a new set of tires on it since then and it's running great, getting around 44mpg according to my ScanGauge (46.3 according to the built-in system), and I'm very happy with my purchase.

    HOWEVER, when I brought it to the local dealership today to get an oil change (it wasn't due, but I wanted to be safe), they provided me with a printed copy of the service records that include a bit more detail that I wasn't previously able to see. There is a record at 214,000 miles -- 3 months before the original owner traded the vehicle in -- that states the following:

    MISCELLANEOUS ENGINE - REPAIR - OIL LEAK
    C/S OIL LIGHT IS ON ; RECOMMENDED SHORT BLOCK BUT DECLINED
    ENGINE IS BURNING OIL AND SHOWS SIGNS OF SLUDGE

    I called the dealership that made this entry and they weren't really very helpful, claiming not being able to look up the records, and generally just trying to get me off the phone as quickly as possible. The local dealership that did the oil change said the oil looked fine, was at the correct level, and they didn't see any signs of leaks.

    I guess it's possible that the original owner had the work done at a different shop, but seeing as they traded it in just a couple of months after this service was recorded, I don't think that's the case. I understand that it's an old vehicle and I'm perfectly OK with having to top off the oil periodically, but I'm still concerned.

    My local dealership said so long as I'm happy with the fuel mileage and it doesn't start acting up that I should just drive it until it stops. Should I be concerned that it's going to turn into a big deal very quickly? I briefly considered doing a compression test but realized it probably wouldn't make me any happier.

    Also, these service records don't indicate that the transaxle fluid has ever been changed. The dealership wants $320+ (and an appointment) to do this. I don't really like this price, or the thought of being stuck at the dealership for several hours, but I like the idea of doing it myself even less. One small local transmission shop said they can "try" for $75 + fluid but "we've never done it before". This particular shop has done good for me on my other vehicles, but around here it seems most people have never touched a hybrid before. All the other shops I called refused to even look at it. Any recommendations?
     
    #1 Hinoserm, Mar 6, 2013
    SteveWlf likes this.
  2. Silver Pine Mica

    Silver Pine Mica Junior Member

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    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
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    N/A
    If you have a 24mm socket, a 10mm hex key, a funnel with a three foot hose, a torque wrench and a breaker bar then you can change the transmission fluid in less than half an hour. It is a simple drain and fill, the fill hole is in the side and you fill until it reaches the bottom of the hole (~3.8 quarts). You should only use genuine Toyota ATF WS though, as no other fluids meet the specifications. Post 87 in this thread Changing Transaxle oil | Page 4 | PriusChat has a picture of the drain and fill holes, be careful not to open the coolant by mistake. Tightening torque is 29 foot pounds.

    If you are worried about a dirty engine, I suggest buying a slightly oversized filter and putting in a fully synthetic oil and then undergoing a short drain interval of ~1000-2000 miles. The Purolator PL20195 PureONE fits the Gen 2 (though amazon thinks it doesn't) though I can't confirm it fits the Gen1 as I don't have one. It is currently under six dollars at amazon while providing more capacity than the standard filter. The synthetic will clean the sludge gradually enough to not clog oil passages and the oversized filter will provide greater capacity to avoid clogging the filter. The shorter interval is just in case there really was a lot of sludge, to get it all out of the system. I would use the larger filter for the next oil change as well and continue using only full synthetic as they are more resistant to sludge buildup. Also changing the oil on a prius is about as easy as it could be on a car.

    Congratulations on your new Prius.
     
    #2 Silver Pine Mica, Mar 6, 2013
  3. Hinoserm

    Hinoserm Junior Member

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    Hello,

    The dealer did the oil change with fully synthetic oil for $44 + tax. I don't think I can even buy the oil locally for much less than that, and they had it done in well under an hour even with a line ahead of me, so I will likely just continue going there for the oil change. They recommend every 5,000 miles, though they claim the oil is good for 10,000. I will likely just go every 3,000 out of habit, at least for now. There was no sign of sludge at all in the old oil (at around 3200 miles old), so I'm not entirely convinced the original dealership wasn't just making stuff up at this point.

    As for doing the transmission fluid myself, I do have the tools, but not a safe place to raise the vehicle, and my health limits how long I can spend on my back, in the sun, etc etc. I've learned that if someone says it takes them an hour to do a job like this, it usually ends up taking me most of a day, and leaves me in a lot of pain. That said, I'd much rather have someone else do it, but will likely end up having to do it myself if I can't find someone before my work sends me on another big trip.

    Either way, thank you for the info.
     
    #3 Hinoserm, Mar 6, 2013
  4. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Vehicle:
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    ATF WS IIRC is NOT the correct transmission for the Gen 1 Prius. It is correct for Gen 2.
     
    #4 cwerdna, Mar 6, 2013
  5. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

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    Vehicle:
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    II
    Has anyone ever found a source for the ATF WS IIRC fluid other than the dealership?? And how much should it cost at the Toyota dealer? I'm sure there shops get it from bulk for their own oil changes. I was just in the local dealership and didn't see any oil in their display cases.
    Also, with the millions of Prius on the road, you would think someone would find a third party substitute. I think I will run that spec/number through my local wholesale/bulk distributor. He might be able t cross it over.

    Thanks for an interesting thread.

    Steve
     
    #5 SteveWlf, Mar 6, 2013
  6. RAL

    RAL Member

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    First, do the compression check. Knowlege is always better than worry. If she drives fine, dosn't knock for $3800 who cares if she uses a quart or two between changes? From the info posted I would get the proper fluid from Toyota and have your trusted $75 mechanic change it. Then drive her till the wheels fall off.

    RA
     
    #6 RAL, Mar 6, 2013
    PriusGuy32 likes this.
  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. I agree with the advice from your local dealer. Just drive the car and keep an eye on the engine oil level. If you don't see visible tailpipe emissions and the oil consumption is reasonable, then why worry.

    I don't see the point of the compression test unless you notice a driveability issue and are actually planning to take some action regarding replacing or repairing the engine. The compression test will show whether the piston rings and engine valves are in good condition and if not, which cylinders are impaired. You can still have excess oil consumption with a good compression test, for example if valve stem seals are leaking.

    2. Buy 5 quarts of Toyota ATF T-IV from your local Toyota dealer parts dept. and take it to your small local shop. Ask them to drain and replace the transaxle ATF. This is not a big deal.
     
    #7 Patrick Wong, Mar 6, 2013
    Silver Pine Mica and PriusGuy32 like this.
  8. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    The classic Prius (2001-2003) transaxle has a removable pan (later modes do not have a removable pan) so you will also need a pan gasket as part of the drain/refill. While the pan is dropped you have the opportunity to clean the pan to remove any accumulated gunk. This job is a reasonable one for any mechanic, but as noted earlier, buy the Toyota Type IV fluid at your dealer first. Find Bob Wilson, a user on this discussion group, and he can tell you if the newer Type WS ATF is a reasonable substitute for your car as he has done some experiments with his Classic Prius.

    One note: A group of technically minded Prius owners, led by Bob Wilson, did a lab testing study which showed that the Type IV ATF should be refreshed every 30k miles whereas the type WS is good for 60k miles in the later model Prii.

    JeffD
     
    #8 jdenenberg, Mar 6, 2013
  9. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    Here's a step by step (with pics) you can use or give to your mech .
     

    Attached Files:

    #9 usnavystgc, Mar 6, 2013
  10. Baggiebird8

    Baggiebird8 Junior Member

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    Just read this thread - some really good and wise advice within it.
     
    #10 Baggiebird8, Mar 6, 2013
  11. Hinoserm

    Hinoserm Junior Member

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    These instructions are quite excellent. After reading this I re-considered and will try and do this myself. I ordered the gaskets and ATF from the dealership for a total of $79.62 (I think next time I'll get this stuff online). The dealer highly recommended going back with T-IV, especially since I wouldn't be draining the entire system, and there was no price difference. I've read a lot of posts here where people swear by one or the other, but no real definitive answers, so I'll stick with that the car was manufactured with.

    Thank you everyone! I feel a lot better about this now.
     
    #11 Hinoserm, Mar 6, 2013
    yotatoter likes this.
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