4th generation coming 2015!

Floating bridge console may be cool in a McClaren FC-14 (?) or Porsche, but in a family car like Prius, it was a misstep. I think it would have been better to cut off the console just below the climate controls, like Prius v. I suppose they could have put the shifter / drive buttons down lower like in a conventional car, except they'd have to keep them away from cupholders / liquids.

It is very awkward to plug into the 12V outlet and reach things underneath the floating bridge.

I don't like the center mounted gages so much. I'd prefer a driver-centric cockpit.

 

Again, it seems I'm just a tech freak, I worked as a N-plant operator for 30+ years. So the Prius cock pit was a selling point for me. In fact, I have a Garmin with ecoroute by the left little window. It has 5 more gauges monitoring even more of the cars parameters. If I could I put my iPad up some ware and stream the OBD2 to it. Buttons, gauges, indicators, graphs, lights, the more I can get the better I like it. Like I said I'm a tech freak.

 

Yep, your a tesla man!
tesla dashboard - Google Search

Alan.. Sent with Tapatalk 2

 

The question was which should be the higher priority, not an either or.

 

LOL, wow, now that is one cool cock pit. Not even in my dreams did I imagine that. But it is really, really, neat! thanks for the teaser, now I have a dream to chase!

 

3rd Gen Prius is currently outdone in horsepower to curb weight by a $3,500 cheaper Toyota Matrix 1.8L 4-cylinder w/4 spd automatic, Prius' closest gas only cousin.

Matrix 1.8L : 132 / 2888 = .046
3rd gen Prius : 134 / 3042 = .044

Can we get a .048 ratio: 144 total system HP and curb weight of 2,992 Lbs. in 4th Gen Prius, or similar ratio?

Guess what? Camry Hybrid LE is .002 more HP/CW than non hybrid LE

Cam Hy LE: 200 / 3435 = .058 HP/Lb
non-hyb Camry LE: 178 / 3190 = .056

What do you think?
-----------------------

Just found - Motortrend article w/ Toyota engineer talks about 150 lb. weight reduction. Interesting!

Radical New Toyota Prius in the Pipeline - Motor Trend

 

There are many lighter cars with more Horsepower, I bought my Prius to pollute less and consume less.

A Mazda Miata weighs 2447 lbs and has 167 HP.

Changes I would expect in future Prius to improve MPG/lower emissions?
2013 Auris hybrid is not going to preview gen. IV technology | PriusChat
None of those are likely to lower weight or increase HP.

Toyota's 1.5 liter made 79 HP in the Gen 2, but only 73 HP in the c, so increasing HP does not seem to be a priority.

 

Toyota decreased 2012 Camry Hybrid weight by 200 lbs and increased total HP by 20 something, and increased fuel economy by 8 MPGs. Why not this kind of this kind of improvement for 4th gen Prius?

Prius gained 24 HP and gained 100 lbs from 2nd to 3rd gen. A modest 10 HP and 50 lbs. decrease is very reasonable.


3rd Gen Prius doesn't even match the HP/weight ratio of $3,500 cheaper Matrix, or $6,000 cheaper Corolla which is the world's best selling car.

If they decrease the power and weight to kowtow for 55 MPG avg (o.7 gallons saved after 400 miles) i'll just shake my head.

 

And of course you can find many Ford F150 owners who will tell you that a Prius 'is not a practical car'. That is not my point, no-where in Toyota's design points is light weight or HP a priority, there are other cars for that.

Here on PriusChat, you will hear a almost constant plea to make the batteries bigger (OK, they ask to make the EV range longer, but that means bigger batteries) and batteries are not light, or cheap. So I do not expect a lighter, cheaper, Liftback, for that they made the c.

In almost all car lines, each generation is slightly larger than before. I bet that continues to be true.

Technically, I do agree with you: 10 HP and 50 lbs would be easy. I just doubt that Toyota would put a Prius label on that car. It might say CT200h though.

 

That's too bad. I'd rather not have to bury the HSI so far into the PWR zone for moderate acceleration. Toyota says they gained Camry hybrid power by improving the intake and exhaust manifolds.

 

Meh. I used to drive a '71 Volkswagen transporter. 60 hp/2,880 lb. = .021

...and it got about 19 mpg.

 

Yes, but that was in 1971. We've come a long way in 42 years.

 

The current Prius engine is still stronger than ideal for Gas Mileage, because it needs to accelerate safely.

Lets 'fix' that.

Let design a 1.3 liter I4 with Direct Injection and an electric oil pump, the Prius tends to have fewer mechanical parasitic loads each generation. With luck an Atkinson cycle DI 1.3 l engine will make 62 HP.
This will spend more time up in the prime hp/gram of fuel used range. Sadly, it will have a 0-60 speed around 20 seconds, like the VW Beetle.

A minor reason to make the oil pump electric is to lubricate engine parts even before it starts. Cold starting is tough on an engine, due to lack of lubrication. My real reason for an electric oil pump is forced induction. Both supercharged, and especially turbocharged engines tend to overheat after you turn them off. In this Prius, both engine coolant and engine oil could flow even with the engine off, greatly reducing wear on the engine from frequent on/off cycles.

With Direct Injection, we do not have to worry about fuel/air going back up the intake tract as happens in the current port injected Atkinson cycle engines, fouling the throttle bodies.

(I am going to discuss 'electric supercharging' below, ALL 'electric superchargers' running at 12 volts are scams, your 12 volt battery does not have the power to compress air.
Understand Why Electric Superchargers Are Scams
)

For 'forced induction' we have four choices:

A) NOx Needs a bottle filled routinely, very prone to destroying the engine. Not a good 'production' system and I am aware it has ever been stock on a production car. I do not consider it further.

B) Turbocharging Has the most complicated plumbing, the most lag, and is least likely to be safe with frequent on/off cycles. I consider it a dark horse.

C) Belt driven supercharger Has certain packaging restraints and is belt driven, Toyota has been eliminating belts, constant parasitic loss of efficiency even when not needed.. Certainly a proven and safe by comparison to B and especially A

D) HV electric supercharging I was first hopeful that the 201 v A/C motor would be powerful enough to compress air for a Prius, but even it is about 1/3 of the HP we need to compress enough air. We really need almost a M/G1 sized motor to feed a supercharger. Clearly the HV Battery can run a M/G1 sized motor for short bursts, that is how it started the Prius now. Not needing a belt it can be placed where ever it makes the plumbing shortest, both for compactness and to combat lag. SInce it is electric, we can envision the Prius computers altering performance electrically:

In Eco we would not supercharge except at full throttle.

In Regular we could spin up when accelerating just enough to have no vacuum (0 psi) until 80 % full throttle then smoothly add power

In Power we can boost any time we are accelerating.

When cruising, we spin the supercharger just enough so the blades do not impede airflow, no boost at all.

HowStuffWorks "Centrifugal Superchargers"

Would a Supercharged 1.3 liter engine weigh less and make more HP? I don't know.

 

I read up article up to the point it said 'most mfrs. would require premium gas'. Most, but not all. I ought to look into Ford Eco boost engines, see what they are doing.

 

Yea, me too... There are a few pc guys that gave bought one and love it.

Taking delivery of my Model S today! (12/2/12) | PriusChat
Alan.. Sent with Tapatalk 2

 

Premium is to avoid detonation. In a belt driven supercharger, there is little control of boost. (the pulleys are a fixed ratio) With an electric supercharger the knock sensor could tell the computer to reduce the RPM of the supercharger motor, staying out of detonation. If you DID put Premium in, more RPM means more boost means more HP. (means less MPG)

 

Electric supercharger using three 12 volt starter motors and three 12 volt batteries


Knight02 Z Photo 2

Boosthead.com · Thomas Knight Turbos · Upgrades · Superchargers

 

Big sales are not Toyota's main aim in Prius? Hmmm. I guess they don't want to produce 20k liftbacks / month for the US.

Toyota Hybrid System downsized considerably? Sounds like a smaller Prius drivetrain is on the way.

"Q: So by employing an all-new THS system, you hope to bring those customers back to the showroom? Will you aim for huge sales again with the new Prius?
A: THS will be important, but big sales are not our main aim. We plan to focus buyer attention on the slightly smaller and cheaper Aqua, the model below the Prius [in Japan], while overseas, the next Prius will be crucial. In fact, our sales target is roughly the same as the current model. But like the first two Priuses, the next Prius will employ the most advanced technology we have, and while delivering class-leading economy, it will redefine the "hybrid" as we know it.

Q: And to achieve that effect, the THS unit must be downsized considerably.
A: Yes, that's right. But these significant revisions were made possible thanks to an all-new platform as well."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1211_radical_new_toyota_prius_in_pipeline/viewall.html#ixzz2NRmBoCgD

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1211_radical_new_toyota_prius_in_pipeline/viewall.html#ixzz2NRlfqqDA

 

Horse power to weight ratio is a non-starter for me: as long as it's acceleration is half-decent, don't care.

 

I see that as focusing on economy, not HP. That would match my impression of Toyota's goals for the Prius.