PIP Mileage deterioration

Welcome to the forum!
If you go to the PiP forum there is a FAQ sticky thread which addresses your question. It is under the question:
What does the number of miles remaining number mean? Why does it keep dropping?

Read more: The one and only Prius Plug-in FAQ! | PriusChat

 

sorry to hear it, sounds like you need to go back to the dealer. unless you do a lot uphill driving! welcome to priuschat, all the best!

 

Read the FAQ. But also can you describe your typical commute, speed, roads, etc. I'm also in SV and I'm getting 13 miles per charge...but it is at 35-50 mpg (Lawrence expwy, Stevens Creek blvd). At 65+ mph on the freeway it is less than 10.



Mike

 

As a three month member, daily visitor here, I'm unaware of any "bugs" or unique problems with the 2012 Prius Plug-In. Are you referring to "potential" problems with any first year model?

Regarding "expected" EV mileage, I'm also baffled. I started out with around 12 miles EV mileage after a full charge in late January after purchase. Now, I average around 9.8 miles actual EV mileage, which is the same as my actual one way work commute. "Learning mode"? With last weeks warmer weather, I was able to arrive either direction with around 1 mile EV mode left. With warmer weather everyday, I assume my EV range will increase a little. My daily commute is 80% interstate, driving at 60 mph with cruise, mostly level ground.

By NO means have I lost confidence in 2012 Prius Plug-In Advance. With almost 900 miles driven, I'm currently at 62% EV mode. Every mile in EV mode is gravy. Brand new to Prius, I'm very happy with my decision to go hybrid, and the Prius was my only consideration. My decision to go with the PIP was a quick one so I could take advantage of the incentives on the remaining 2012s. I liked the additional features on the advance model and felt comfortable with the car and price. No regrets here.

 

Setting of expectations is incredibly difficult for any type of plug-in vehicle.

With a pure EV, some owners find out and accept the reality that the range displayed is only an estimate and only delivers that value under certain circumstances. It's a source of frustration, but they learn about the factors involved and adapt. In time, many enjoy their vehicle again... but certainly didn't anticipate there would be such complexities. The thought had never crossed their mind prior to purchase.

When an gas engine is introduced to the situation, matters become even more confusing and far more incorrection assumptions are made, especially with Prius.

Notice the pattern that has emerged? Virtually even complaint about dropping EV estimates share the same thing in common... no mention of MPG. Prius PHV is a plug-in hybrid. It's not an EV. The purpose is to deliver a significant MPG boost, not electric-only driving.

Owners become transfixed on the EV range estimate. Some have driving routes that bring it way down. Others simply drive in an inefficient manner, believing more EV is better. The forget about the purpose of the design. They figure using the engine as infrequently as possible is best. They end up seeking out help online.

Some of those owners are receptive to the information provided. Some just aren't interested and really only want to vent. Unfortunately in this case, the owner stating "Either Toyota is mis-representing the product, or there is something very wrong with my vehicle" doesn't give us much opportunity to respond. It gives the impression that it's already too late to provide feedback.

Will the owner be receptive to switching focus to the purpose of increased efficiency? Considering how many times the EV range was mentioned and the total absence of MPG data, the feeling is, no.

Thanks for unknowingly allowing me to climb up on the soapbox. I hope we can help you out.

Welcome.

Specifically for me, I've watched my EV value go down. Now, I'm watching it go up again. In my circumstances, it's the result of seasonal change. Temperature fluctuation is a major influence for me, up here in Minnesota.

Long distance travel without the opportunity to plug-in is another factor that will drop the value. In the case of a battery-pack delivering roughly 2.7 kWh of usable electricity, it doesn't take much to qualify as "long". Notice that you didn't tell us how many miles your daily drive is either.

Hopefully, you'll get past the frustration and begin to see how well thought out the design actually is. There's much to appreciate after discovering how many factors were taken into consideration. Simple things like the ECO button's benefit when it comes to heating & cooling easily get overlooked.

Give us more info and we'll do the best to try to help.

 

I've only had my Prius Plug-in a couple of weeks. My EV mileage indicator at full charge has actually gone up from 13.1 to 13.6 I typically get more due to the mild hills on some of my local routes and speeds in the 30 - 40 mph range. Adding miles traveled to EV miles indicated often adds up to 14.5, which is more than I started with.

That's all very nice but as John1791a said "Its the mileage that counts". My calculation says that the EV mode is about 100mpg based on $0.13 per kWh, $4 gas and an average of 10 miles for a full charge. Combined with some HV on longer trips a resulting 60 to 70 mpg is very nice without doing a lot of hyper-mileage stuff.

Of course if you are on PGE 3rd tier in California at $0.30 per kWh the effective mileage of EV isn't all that wonderful.

 

In my opinion, it isn't all that difficult, just isn't being done well. Education of consumers is critically important and some sales folks just aren't doing well.

Virtually all EV owners that I know, knew going into the purchase that the range is an estimate. Almost all knew it was based on their driving behaviors and environment. It is a source of frustration for some who were not told by their salesman and didn't find out in their research.

I don't believe this is being communicated by Toyota to car buyers. I don't know what the OP was looking for, or told when they bought their PiP.

Perhaps that is becase driving in EV mode is something they prefer? I know I cringe anytime the ICE is about to turn on becasue I am just about out of EV range.
I find it a more pleasurable experience (smooth, quiet, instantly responsive) and IS something I want as a consumer.

Hopefully it is not too late and the OP will get some answers from the FAQ and many other threads on the range shown and how it fluxuates.
I would also hope they would report on what they were told when buying the car. This may give us a better understanding of why they got the impression they did.

 

Expectations depend heavily upon audience. That's why the "Who?" question has been asked over and over again and continues to be.

Prius PHV is a plug-in hybrid. Toyota aimed squarely at middle-market and you can clearly see what they are working to deliver. It's intended to become a high-volume business-sustaining vehicle for mainstream competition in the near future. That's certainly not same as an EV.

True, you do get the electric-only driving experience from Prius, but that's not the purpose. Engine running is a normal part of operation. It will use some gas. The point is, that combustion will be cleaner and the efficiency will be better.

All we can do is continue to share our own experiences. No matter what information EPA or automakers or dealers provide, it's not going to convey anything more than a generalized measure. Owners are the only ones that can exchange detail to make help those making the purchase decision. They can relate, making sure "Who?" really understands how the vehicle will function.

 

Check into the PG&E EV Time of Use rates and see if they work better for you.

Electric power in Silicon Valley is some of the cleanest in the country and contains essentially no power from coal generation (less than 5%). Even nationally, coal generation is now down to around 35-40% according to the latest numbers I saw.

The PG&E system average for Northern California is 0.524 pounds CO2 per kWh and the off-peak overnight average is said to be lower. That works out to about 15 pounds CO2 per 100 miles EV versus 40-50 pounds for a 50 mpg Prius on gasoline. And, the short trips on gas which get replaced by grid power are often on a cold engine and get way less than 50 mpg.

 

As I have posted elsewhere on this forum, my estimated EV range tends to run higher than that of a lot of posters. I usually see between 14 and 15, and even 16 the other day. I know it is related to the type of driving I have done. If I go several days with no freeway driving, and just do short runs around town, it drops to 14+ and maybe even into the high 13's. I usually get 14-15 actual EV miles with in-town trips, but of course some of that range comes from regeneration while driving. Now if I throw in some freeway driving in which I have manually changed to HV, saving the EV for the last few miles of freeway and the surface streets at the end of the trip, I notice a higher EV range after charging for the next three to four days. This will give me somewhere in the high 15's, slowly dropping to 15 or so, again depending on how many days of local errands before I take another longer drive on the freeway.
I made a roundtrip of mostly (approx. 35 mi.) freeway driving Saturday of 40 miles, and had 16 EV showing Sunday morning. Drove only about 5 miles surface streets on Sunday, and had 15.9 EV showing this morning.
I agree with John that it is the overall fuel economy that counts. My ratio of EV to HV is 29/71, somewhat lower than folks with a regular short commute report. I have a lifetime average of 83 mpg, well above the mid-fifties I had with my '04 and '06 Gen II's. I'm happy to be sending less $$ to OPEC.
The most important thing sales people can tell a customer is that mileage varies, whether it is using EV or HV.

 

To the OP: Everybody has pretty well covered everything except for two factors. 1. I also had a 2005 and people would complain about mpg, but as you know mpg varies greatly on multiple factors. 2. You can improve the EV estimate by simply rebooting, however it is only temporary. You lose some presets like date and time. In actuality one could reboot every day. Also remember that the EV estimate is different from the EV RANGE. Your range should exceed the estimate if you are a conservative driver. After one year of ownership ( approaching ) I presently have 98mpg on my HSI display. Of course I do not have a commute, that makes a huge difference!

 

17.3 mile commute today. 55 mph maximum. 36 minutes driving. 32°F outside. Cabin-Heater set at 68°F. Heated-Seats off. Headlights & Foglights on. Driving through fresh snow.

10.7 miles was the EV estimate upon leaving the driveway (video-camera setup consumed 0.2 mile).

Drive-Ratio reported: 9 EV and 7 HV

127 MPG

 

Just an opinion but Toyota does need to expand the EV range. However they do disclose the range on the web site. Never believe what the salesperson says unless he can prove it.

Hopefully the car pool sticker is helping

 

Had my 2012 PiP for about a month now. EV range seems normal. 12.9 first time I ever charged. Gradually fell to 11.9 over the course of a few weeks. Then last week went back up to 12.2 where it has been for the last few charges. It definitely adjusts for your driving pattern.

 

started out with a full charge range of 12.1 today and cut over to hv at 13.6 miles. 20's to 40 mph mostly flat 38 degrees.

 

I started out a year ago with an EV estimate of 13.4 miles (the default). This is with the climate control system on and in auto mode, it's usually about 12% higher with it off. It slowly dropped to 10.1, rose back up to 10.8 with some modifications in my driving style, but during the winter it dropped to 9.1 miles. It has started rising again as the weather has improved and is now at 9..4 miles. I have a 46 mile one-way commute to work that has a mixture of steep hills, local streets and freeway usage. My MPG per tank is typically between 55 and 60 MPG. Lifetime MPG is currently 56.1.

My point to all this? Wait for spring to fully arrive. Your EV estimate should start going back up as the weather improves. And take a look at your driving style, length of commute, type of commute, and your total MPG per tank.

 

Just to echo what 3PriusMike said in case it gets lost:

Please explain your daily commute and how many actual EV miles you are getting so we can better help you.



As for my honest EV mileage report:

My daily commute is about 13 miles. From my home to work, there is an elevation drop of ~600 feet, all city, no highway. Lately, I've been leaving the house with a full battery showing 11.8 EV miles. This morning, when I arrived at work, I had 1.8 EV miles left. The most EV miles I've seen arriving at work is 3.2. There are a lot of traffic lights, so the longer I can cruise, the better the range.

When I go home, I have a full charge showing about 11.9 or 12.0 EV miles. I run out of EV at about the 11 mile mark, give or take 1/2 a mile. Aside from the drive home being "uphill", about 2 miles of it is on a road with a posted speed limit of 50MPH. I usually drive about 55 MPH indicated during this stretch because that's pretty much the flow of traffic with the occasional 60+ MPH driver. This section chews up EV range. The rest of the route varies between 40-50MPH, but with less aggressive traffic.

 

Well, we have a 2012 base that I just took in for it's first service @ 10k miles and it's almost a year old. At first we were seeing higher estimates but now it seems to have settled down to a pretty consistent 10.1 mile initial reading. If it matters, we do mostly 'round town driving except for once a month we drive 500 miles mostly highway and I'd say I'm a 'conservative' driver.

radio

 

even after all the above good advice and reported ev miles, 8 miles is too little and op should go back to the dealer.