Need a New Windows 8 Laptop or Ultrabook. Any suggestions?

The difference is that a PC works with everything whereas the Mac only works with other Apple things and you have to do it their way. The only feature on an Apple PC that is worth considering is the Samsung IPS screen. That would be the "retina display". Apple told Samsung to not make any IPS screens for anyone other than them, but that expires very very soon if it hasn't already. I thought it was end of Q1 2013 it was happening, so right about now. Personally if you can wait, I would wait for a new system with an IPS screen.

Apple computers since they switched to the Intel processor are exactly the same as any other PC on the market in terms of hardware. At first they used EFI instead of a standard BIOS which made the processor slightly different, but now they are essentially identical. Apple buys parts like any other maker and puts them together to make a PC. They slap it in their case with their software and sell it as their machine.

So what you are paying for with a mac is the design which is beautiful, and the operating system of OSX instead of Windows or some other version of Linux/FreeBSD. The design is something that can sometimes swing buying decisions. There is no doubt they make beautiful designs, and to some that is worth any amount of money. However Samsung also has full aluminum models as do a few others but their price is generally also very high.

Apple also has a reputation of following closely the recommended Intel layout and performance guidelines of their motherboards. This is important. Some companies (like Gateway is a great example) take the recommended documents and then chop away everything they can get away with. This means taking away filter capacitors, reducing their values, or changing their types. Moving parts away and consolidating them, etc. This makes it cheaper, but it is not nearly as robust. Samsung and Asus are two companies that use Windows that are also known for keeping and following closely the recommended Intel layouts.

As for the OS (Operating System) that is a personal choice. I absolutely hate OSX because I can't do anything I want to without a lot of fuss. I like the fact that it doesn't use a registery, but dealing with incompatible kext files is a nightmare. Drivers are not backwards compatible, so your old hardware no longer works with your new system quite often. Windows however is based on an entirely different concept (a registry) and has stuck with it for better or for worse. When computers slow down over time, it is usually because the registry has grown into a monster and there are lots of loose ends. Installing lots of programs and programs that dump all their garbage in there explodes the size and creates lots of dead branches. It is like if you had one binder of papers that detailed where everything in your house is. When you first make the list it will be typed and nice to index. You start moving stuff around, or buying/selling things and now you have to change the list so you scribble here and there, add some post it notes, stuff some extra papers in there, maybe receipts for your new purchases or the warranty paperwork and manuals for things, whatever that sort of makes its way back but really shouldn't be in there. Now when you want to go find something you have a crazy mess. This is the windows registry and is the main downfall for the Operating System.

Having said that, it is extremely robust and if you manage it, it will work forever. If you don't want to manage it, a reformat every couple years to clean up that binder is a good idea.

Everyone I know with a mac, runs Windows on it. They bought it for the screen and/or design. Never even booted into OSX, it was deleted straight out of the box and runs Windows natively.

So the question is, what do you want to use it for? If it is for work like you said, then you need to run Windows. There is no way around it. And anybody that says Windows is unstable, obviously doesn't know what they are doing or bought crap before. I hear that from people that bought $400 laptops then went to their $2500 macbook and it is so much better... Well yeah. My $2500 computer is also much better than my $400 laptop. My $5000 gaming laptop blows the mac out of the water with 3 SSD hardddrives and 2 independent video cards with 2GB o GDDR each and a desktop i7. What's the point? It is like buying a Chevy Aveo for $7000 and hating it saying all cars suck so you go out and buy a $80,000 Lexus SUV. Then you say SUV's are much better than cars. No, that SUV is better than that car, and you paid 10x the price so it better be.

So that chooses your OS. Now you can stick your OS on any machine that runs x86 commands which is any Apple machine made in the past few years or any windows laptop either. So then you have to pick what design elements you want in your price range. $800 price range is not much for a great machine. It will get you a decent machine like a Samsung 3 or 5 series or a Toshiba Protege but it won't be the end all be all of computers.

To me personally, screen resolution is very important. That's why I am waiting for an IPS screen from Samsung in one of their higher end machines. If I needed to buy another machine today, I would buy a macbook pro with the "retina" (i.e. Samsung IPS) display and reformat the harddrive with Windows 7 or 8. Behind that is screen size, then performance, then design. I would rather have an ugly machine that runs circles around anything else than a machine that looks like a supermodel but is completely worthless (macbook air comes to mind). But some people want something sexy to show off, and will put up with poor performance and usability. That's why they are so many choices!

And I have OSX running on my Windows machine. When I need to test a new driver for mac compatibility, I can. But it shows that An Apple Macbook IS an Apple PC. There is no difference. Same instruction set, same everything. Just different operating system. I just took a screenshot of it running:



So with that advice I would recommend a good machine from any good company. Toshiba, Samsung, Asus, and Apple are all top notch. Then put Windows on there. Having a touchscreen is nice. I have had tablet PC's since the early 2000's and they are invaluable. I can actually sign documents, and all my notes in university are recorded digitally and archived on my server. I can access any note I took during any class and any year from any where. When I take notes in mettings, I can draw pictures and schematics in my notes on my computer. Note that a "tablet" is the correct term for a computer with a screen and keyboard always attached. The iPad is a slate not a tablet. Just like the new Microsoft Surface is a slate, not a tablet. But English evolves, and now we refer to them as tablets just to confuse everyone. But my tablets are actually tablets, not slates called tablets. This allows me to program with lots of furious keyboard typing, then grab and rotate the screen fold it over the keyboard and draw on it when I want.

 

JMD -
Macs are studier than regular laptops, they also look way nicer. You've probably noticed that not a whole lot of cellphone or tablets are better than iPad or iPhone, same with Macs. Mac OS software updates are also far cheaper. The methodology of the Mac is better, more thought out. Mac went back and redid their entire OS way back. Windows just keeps revamping the same crap and selling it for large amounts of money. Sure, the interface becomes better, sleaker, etc. but the bones are still the same bug-ridden thing since the beginning. Example: Windows stores files in multiple locations. This is akin to you chopping up a piece of paper and storing it various locations and leaving yourself with a map. Regularly you run through with Disk Defrag and clean up your office, which is now so cluttered you can't see your decade-old sandwich anymore.
The Mac just puts it where it fits. Much tidier office now.
There are a lot of subtleties that I can't really pinpoint, that just make the Mac what it is. A lot of programs for Windows run on Mac, and Mac has a good free software selection. I would recommend researching them. If you're not going to use it much, I would just get a PC and save money. But the Mac will also last longer, so keep that in mind.

 

I use OSX exclusively. Perhaps it is just me. I have windows 7 on my machine and ignore it completely. Currently all it does is sit on 70 GB ROM for me. Sure, I could use it, but I don't like to. I like the layout of OSX, it does what it should, and I like it. Contrary to what people say about Mac being an artistic person's computer, I use plenty of regular business software and it works fine, mostly because it is, after all, the same basic structuring.
I also dislike Bill Gates, and dislike Microsoft's investment strategy. But that's beside the point.

 

Your post is littered with a bunch of non-reality based opinions. If by sturdier you mean physically rugged because of the aluminum chassis, then check out the 9 series Samsung. Same thing. Lots of cell phones and tablets are better than iPhone/iPad, but those are the only ones that run iOS. In terms of hardware, Apple is middle to high end, but not the best ever at everything. In terms of their OS's, they do some things nicely, other things not (i.e multitasking, stack and core/thread management, etc). Windows completely revamped in 95, then again in 2000 with NT. The only flaw that Windows has exclusively is the registry. It is something that is a hold over. There are great things about it, and horrible things about it. Windows and OSX store files in lots of locations. Programs written for windows partition the data based on a program-os relationship and a program-user relationship. This fragments the data in different spaces protected and ruled differently. Apple puts all the eggs in one basket. Easy to carry, but can be dangerous. I used this to my advantage in highschool. Because everything is visible all the time (no separate user oriented partitioning of data files from OS oriented files) I was able to crack open an application, read its internal file structure and see the encryption for administrator versus user rights. It is all there open for everyone if you can find it. I was then able to login with admin rights on any of the school's macs and do whatever I wanted. Really simple and I didn't have to hunt around like I would in Windows tracing things back. Good and bad.

Disk defrag happens on a mac too. The journaled HFS+ partitioning is just different than NTFS. Again, advantages and disadvantages. But it doesn't matter your claim is false. If you put a 1GB movie on your disk, then lots of other things, then erase it, you now have a 1GB hole sandwiched between other files. Try to put a 1.01GB file there and it won't fit. Both Windows and OSX try to then fill it with things less than 1GB, but you will probably have a little bit extra that no file you created/moved will fit into. This happens with everything you delete/edit/move. So holes appear. OSX runs a disk defrag on the journal partitions too. Just like Windows does. Nobody has to do it manually since the days of Windows ME.

Macs also don't last any longer than a comparably priced Microsoft-based PC. The guts are the same. The lithium in the batteries is actualy sub-standard because it is injected to fit nooks that are only there because of form-over-function. The aluminum exterior is superb, but not exclusive. My Falcon Northwest will outlast any mac in any area. But it also costs 2x the highest end macbook pro last I checked, so it is not a fair comparison.

I am trying really hard in this thread to be factual and objective. I am not an Apple fanboi, but I am not a Microsoft fanboi either. I buy what is the best, and blanket statements like Apple is better than Microsoft, just do not work.

If your job is any sort of geeky, you don't use OSX. If you deal with spreadsheets and word documents, my smart phone from 2001 did that too. As did my Handspring (like a Palm Pilot) from 1997. So a mac will do that just fine. Just like it will browse the web and play solitaire.

Schematic design? No. Layout? No. Simulation of transistor level circuits? No. Programming? Very Limited. If you are a power user, you are a windows user. But not everyone is a power user.

And to reiterate, if I had to buy a PC today in the sub-$3K range, I would buy a macbook pro with retina display. I would wipe OSX and put on Win 7/8. If I wait 2 months or so, Samsung will more than likely have their own models with the same IPS display and the same style of aluminum body, so I would then buy that. If I want a powerhorse, I would buy another Falcon Northwest in a heartbeat. And they custom paint it in automotive high gloss paints with custom airbrush art if you ask too.

 

That's definitely the exception and not the norm amongst Mac owners.

I haven't had a chance to read your entire post but THF may not be aware that OS X and apps on OS X are hiding a lot of files and complexity by the use of bundles. See How to Show Package Contents - MacRumors Forums and Mac Tips and Tricks - Article: Inside Application Bundles. Try doing it on various .app (Application files).

(I'm a PC guy but did test Mac software for a living for 4 years. I don't use my crufty G4 Mac Mini and don't have a modern Mac at the moment.)

 

Ahem.

Go to a Unix convention, and see for yourself. Or walk around science departments in universities and see what the grad students are using. Windows is practically non-existent. *nix rules. Lots of Linux, lots of OSX.

I think you mean engineers tend to be Windows users.

 

Agreed. But I don't care about the opinion of people that spend 99% of their computer time on facebook or peopleofwalmart. Those people could use a computer from 1995 and not know the difference. If you are a power user, then it seems like the norm. I don't actually know any person personally with a mac (even the web-browser only people) that don't also have Windows installed either in a virtual machine or a dual boot. Everyone that actually uses a computer for computing, just runs Windows or a flavour of Linux.

I repaired macs and pc's throughout school. Just as many mac problems as PC problems. I try to stay away from writing mac software or drivers, but sometimes you just have to.

 

I was in your shoes eight years ago and bought a MacBook and a copy of Microsoft Office for Mac. Most everyone in my world uses PC's and I have had no difficulty working with them. Bought a new MacBook Pro in November even though the original MacBook was running fine. I did not have very good luck with PC's - not so much the hardware but Windows. For me the Mac OS is really much easier. But everyone's needs are different.

 

Err ... why are you rebooting or shutting the machine down ? Is that a Windoze thang ? I can remember doing that a lot with a DOS machine 25 years ago, but surely MS has improved a little since then ?

 

Toaster: Your response is somewhat too technical for me to answer in depth. However, I do use power programs on my Mac - sometimes running Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Illustrator, etc. and using 3D functions in PSD and Illustrator, which takes a lot of power. It become somewhat slower under these conditions, but not significant (delay of a couple seconds). In other words, I am a complete geek. Therefore your blanket statement does not work in this instance, since windows is largely regarded as being the more popular business PC. To each their own, though.

 

The issue for engineers is not the power of the computer (but, of course, "I have a need for speed"), it is the availability of professional programs to do our tasks. Our engineering students MUST have a Windows PC or a MAC that is set up to run Windows so that they can install the software used in our courses.

JeffD

 

I have all Macs at home and PCs at work. I'm a lawyer and used to support PCs in a smaller office. I got tired of doing it at home. I have Windows running in virtual machines on my Macs, just for grins, but have hardly ever really needed it, since I can run my office environment on the Mac, using a remote desktop client. Office on Mac works interchangeably with my office files and office Outlook.

On the one hand, the Macs generally just work, and don't require much management. On the other hand, you do have to get used to slightly different ways of doing things, and there are a couple of things that Windows does easier, like dealing with scanners, or logitech harmony remotes. Also, you can't resize menu bars and other interface elements like you can in Windows.

Depending on your work, you may not have good support for working with multiple OSes. If you don't want to have to learn new tricks or otherwise really just want to stay in Windows, get one of the better brand ultrabooks.

 

Compare a macbook air to any similarly configured ultrabook with the same build quality. The decent ones are all in the same price range. Yes, you can buy something considerably cheaper (compared to both Macs and some ultrabooks), but it won't be as light and strong (or have quite the same components). I would be tempted by the retina display on the 13 inch macbook pro.

 

I was tempted by the retina Mac but ended up sticking with the MBP. One thing I like about my current MBP is that it is still user upgradable - meaning that at some point I can replace the battery myself, add a bit of memory and maybe even change over to an SSD. I am curious about the new Windows OS. When I left Wondows what impressed me about the the Mac OS was its stability. I am still not running any anti-virus software and have never had a bug. If that difference has narrowed that is a good thing - no one system will work for every user.

 

Win 7 is much more reliable than prior iterations of Windows. Win 8 is just adding a touch screen gloss on top of that (which some don't like, but I think can be turned off), so should still be reliable. Still need to constantly update WIN 7 or WIN 8, but can be set to run automatically. FYI, the built in MS anti-virus also seems to work pretty well, though our IT guy at work still uses 3rd party anti-virus server software, along with 3rd party anti-spam server software.

 

You can turn off the tiles and other crap crap on win 8 but it takes a free to $3 piece of software. I used Startisback for $3 and it gives Win8 a Win7 interface with the familiar old start menu. The fru-fru Win8 tiles are still just a keystroke away if you want them. So far no problems with Win8, I haven't even bothered dumping it and installing the legit copy of Win7 I already had.

 

Rebooting any machine (Linux, Windows, or OSX) every now and then is a good thing if you run poorly written programs that have garbage collection problems. They will eat RAM and system resources to do something, then when done they are supposed to give up everything they previously used. But sometimes they give back 99% of what they used and trap the rest in operating system memory management hell where the semaphores don't roam. Do that enough over some time span (variable on just how poorly coded the program is) and eventually you will have limited resources with no recovery method. This is not an OS thing, it is a programming thing. There are OS's that prevent this, such as wrapping all programs in their own virtual space and when the program closes, all virtual addresses are killed too. And there are software frameworks (like .NET) that do this as well. But most flavours of Linux, OSX, and Windows allow the programmer to do whatever they want, which is not always a good thing!

My server before I hardware upgraded it, which required a power down, ran for 2.5 years, 24/7/365 at medium to high CPU usage with lots of server processes constantly chattering, thousands of connections open at all times. It ran Windows 7 Pro, not even a server addition because really you don't need it with the right registry tweaks.

I also use Adobe products, and right now I have Photoshop and Dreamweaver open along with lots of other programs. I know what you mean, Adobe definitely doesn't care what resources their machines use. They use everything they can!

Windows is popular in business, but also engineers. As someone above mentioned, you can't run real engineering software outside of windows or linux. I have 2 servers in my cabinet that do nothing but run transient simulations. It takes them 100% CPU on all 12 processor cores, most of the 128GB of RAM (yes GB, not MB) and many hours to get a few milliseconds of data on what the circuit is going to do with these parameters. That runs on Linux but it can be run under Windows too. No mac offering.

Sort of sidetracked, hopefully JMD can make a more informed choice with all the information in this thread.