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I want to run on propane

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by 2007blueprius, Apr 5, 2013.

  1. 2007blueprius

    2007blueprius Member

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    heck that tank alone on ebay is $600 duda diesel, AL i think
     
  2. Justdidit

    Justdidit LVNPZEV

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    So basically you don't 'need' any different EM and the OEM EM will run un-noticing the different fuel??
     
  3. 2007blueprius

    2007blueprius Member

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    like I mentioned, from what I have learned so far regardless of type, manufacturer, software, they all work on the same principal, propane and gas are rather simmilar to begin with, the motor can't tell much of a difference, I believe propane is higher octane lower caloric value, all these kits do is intercept the oem injector signal, some tap into the o2 sensor, crank, cam, via usb read only type deal, they just monitor, and depending on user and software imputs, they will either let the oem run its injectors untempered with or they can cut the signal, adapt it to match and fire the propane injectors, its just fuel management, thats all, now some do it better than others, its all in the hardware and software, lpgc.co.uk has some good plain articles. its not rocket science, for all the prius is concerned it runs on gas, if anything I can see a possibility, it apears the fuel manifold would stay presurised, althou the fuel pump wont need to run as the injectors are not fireing, not sure if the prius is wired to wonder about that
     
  4. Jon Hagen

    Jon Hagen Active Member

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    I have run dual gasoline / propane engines for the last 50 years, and have done many conversions. The usual way is to use the gasoline carb or fuel injectors to run on gasoline and use a propane mixer upstream of the throttle body or carb for propane. They were pretty effective and trouble free, but the cost of propane to gasoline has closed up to the point that you will really nevger drive it long enough to see a break even on your investment.
    In the old days of carbs with no engine computers, the conversion was pretty easy. Today you will spend as much, if not more to modify the engine computer to convince it to allow the engine to run on the very different propane / air mix, as you do on the propane hardware itself.
    About the only way to get a legal fuel tank that fits under the car, is to use an expensive and complicated rack tank. When you consider adding the road tax which you must pan anyway, plus the cost of LP vs gasoline, it's just not worth all that is required to make it happen.
     
  5. 2007blueprius

    2007blueprius Member

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    well I'm glad you pitched in I was hoping hor someone with real experience to tag along.
    the ventury type systems you speak of those were the old days, those were not much more than a stoveburner and regulator, I have them on my forklifts, I cant see a good way to even consider riging them up on a prius, the cost is not that close as you may think, I buy my propane for almoast $20/8gal tank, its 18something plus tax, and its been like that for the past 4 years while gas went from 3 to 5 and back, the savings are not a lot but versus a $600 kit it will recover, for me it would take a while at 10k/year, honestly I dont care about cost enough to do the math, also keep in mind thats if it all goes well and I don't need a new head in 20k, if you ran it for 50 years you know how clean the oil remains, I've spoke about it, check out that video they came a long way since the venturi days, any who sure theres trouble ahead risk and possibly reward if all goes well ,but its not as bad as you may think, for me its more about the project if you will, since the prius I doubt my fuel bill is more than $50 per month so say I save $10, that would be 60 mo, rough ideea, in england where fuel I hear is $8 lpg $3.50, or if youre one of these guys that can log 200k in couple years, its significant
     
  6. 2007blueprius

    2007blueprius Member

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  7. 2007blueprius

    2007blueprius Member

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    well I stumbled into an uk based lpg forum the other day, ran a search on gasitaly, just one oust about a wire harness, ran a search on "italian" those sistem apear to be prefered by many installers, patticularily most italian sistems have computers made by a company called AEB which is highly regarded, one name that poped often in conjunction with these searches, the polish stag kits, from what I gathered they are pretty competitive, they have their diferences and similarities, some talk about stag using aeb chips/components, some talk about stag kits having other cheap components, thou the one conversion I seen on this forum had valtek 34 injectors, which I read they are some of the best, sure they are some other top shelf stuff, twice or more the cost but not extremely popular, Prins is one of the name, some call it the best out there and the price reflect it too.
    has anybody read through these websites and files I posted? esp the one below, some conection is required to the obdII plug, and they describe few common types of conections, I am not as familiar as I would like to be but I noticed the type called "CAN" I see that term allover this forum, does somebody know better, I could use some help here or point me in the right direction, I'll do some reading
     

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  8. wb9k

    wb9k 09 Gen II Prius w Hymotion Plug-In Batt

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    CAN is Controller Area Network. It is probably the most ubiquitous protocol for automotive data busses. Depending on how much power you need on the buss, hardware/software requirements can run from free to quite pricey. Mind your termination resistors. Not the most user-friendly of systems.....
     
  9. Justdidit

    Justdidit LVNPZEV

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    Interesting to think that the controller is done thru the OBDII port. Makes me wonder why other EM systems don't use that vs needing to be tapped directly into the ECU....or is it because not much extra management is needed when adding these systems alternate fuel systems. The Hydrogen Prius had an elaborate piggy back system that tapped in and made the ECU think one thing while the Piggy back system did another and took control of the ICE.
     
  10. Eroshan

    Eroshan New Member

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    I had a ford pickup that was converted to use LPG and gasoline. It is true that LPG burns cleaner, but it also has less energy per volume. 1 gallon of gas = 1.36 gallons of propane in BTU's. So the current prices are about equal. Also, in cold weather propane is very bad for condensation. The act of vaporizing LPG makes the intake even colder than the air surrounding it. It was a novel use, but I can't see it's proper application on a fuel injected engine.
     
  11. 2007blueprius

    2007blueprius Member

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    yes, I'm lost allready, I highlighted a couple terms, the first one I did not even know that word exists, have you had a look at that wireing file I posted, given you know a bit, how does it seem to you, try plain words please, They are only looking for a couple conections on my part, I only need to know enough not to blow it up, most train tecks may not, also where does one come across some good reading on this system like a basic description, google?
     
  12. wb9k

    wb9k 09 Gen II Prius w Hymotion Plug-In Batt

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    Ubiquitous=common. CAN is used in A LOT of cars, it's sort of an industry standard.

    I'm sorry I don't have time to dig into your wiring diagram today..."CAN network basics" looks like a pretty good Google search to start with. Termination resistors will surely be covered in what you find there...they are among the most common gotcha's when dealing with CAN at the most basic levels.
     
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  13. 2007blueprius

    2007blueprius Member

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    so given your numbers galon per galon propane is 2.25*1.36 = $3.06 per galon, mind you it is pretty stable too, at this time I am looking at say 60 cents per galon, versus the europeans, looks like propane ia about the same as here but gas is double, no wonder there is verry liitle interest, on a 16mpg truck sure, like I said or a sales person that logs lots of miles, the prius especialy the miles I run it will take a while but it does recover, and they are reliable so over say 100k at 1.2c/mile = $1200 I think I did that right even at our extremly low profit margin it pays you back, keep in mind gas will seadily go up, propane not so much, if any, but there are other advantages, bottom line I want to do something, plug in is a considerable investment and the payback is not that much greater, if any, rims, headlights, not my cup of tea, maybe sume tint but even on that I got quoted $250
     
  14. 2007blueprius

    2007blueprius Member

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    I noticed the term mentioned all over the plugin section, read throu several articles trying to figure out how does the prius uce the stored energy, si in short its a network that liknks all the electronics and alows them to comunicate, the prius obviously uses the can, further it doesnt mater all can conections are made the same, just curious they list in my document as 250 or 500 kbps, Im asuming kilobytes/sec (never took and interest to computers) standard or extended, which one is the prius?
     
  15. wb9k

    wb9k 09 Gen II Prius w Hymotion Plug-In Batt

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    I'm not sure offhand which speed the Prius CAN buss runs at, but I just looked at your attached file and it doesn't matter if the choices you list are your only options, and I expect they are. The connection is identical in both cases. They also tell you how to use a simple OBD-II scanner to determine what type of connection any car might require. You shouldn't need any real knowledge of CAN to figure this out from the looks of it.
     
  16. 2007blueprius

    2007blueprius Member

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    I kind of figured all that, and I do have a scantool, a fancy one too, I don't know whats up with the number they list for a scan tool, for as minute I thought its something special, obviously the prius uses can anyway, those others may be unusual from what I read, and I kindof figured there is not much more necesary for me to know just curious, I'm in a bit of uncharted teritory with those electronics, and I like to have a clue at least, not just bolt it up
    how about actualy conecting those wires? solder them to the respective wire in the back of the plug I recon would be best, leave the port free to be used, paperclips and wirenuts is probably a bad Ideea.
     
  17. wb9k

    wb9k 09 Gen II Prius w Hymotion Plug-In Batt

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    Yes, I would probably splice into the wire behind the connector if you can get to it. Solder and cover with heatshrink if you can.
     
  18. 2007blueprius

    2007blueprius Member

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  19. 2007blueprius

    2007blueprius Member

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    for those of you that have safety concerns