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What is reasonable for changing "upper radiator hoses," plus other issues

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by AZDriverMan, May 14, 2013.

  1. AZDriverMan

    AZDriverMan Member

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    I was at the Toyota dealership today, and they said that it would cost $401 for labor and parts for the upper radiator hoses. Is that reasonable? Is it really necessary? They said it is preventative maintenance. I think there was something about leaking, although there was another issue with the transaxle, which they said is covered by extended warranty.

    The car is a 2006 Prius and it has around 79,000 miles.

    They also found that the A/C was blowing warm, as I thought as well. They said they would take out all the refrigerant, and fill it with new refrigerant with dye. They charged around $200, which I thought was expensive also. However, I know there is some issue with the A/C.

    *Another Note* -- I have noticed sometimes the car idles strangely, as in, outside of normal operation, but I figured that might have been the heat/normal. I am not sure if this has to do with one of these issues.
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Unless you can see that a radiator hose is cracked and not pliable when squeezed, I would leave it alone. It is quite likely that at 79K miles, the hoses are all in good condition.

    Further, $401 is a high price for that work.

    Save your money for the A/C repair which probably will end up in the four-digit range.
     
  3. AZDriverMan

    AZDriverMan Member

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    Thanks for the help. The A/C repair will end up in the four digit range? Are you saying that they will find something wrong with a major part of the A/C unit, such as the condenser unit or something? I have an extended warranty, which is supposed to cover certain aspects of the A/C unit.
     
  4. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Yes, the leak likely is at the condenser which is located near the radiator and subject to impact damage.
     
  5. RobertK

    RobertK Member

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    MSRP for the hose is $15.89, and the flat rate labor is 3.4 hours as per Alldata DIY. I can't believe it would take that long, even with a generous allowance for bleeding the air out of the system. If you don't see a crack or leak in the hose and have no cooling problems I would decline the service, or do it when the ICE coolant is changed at 100,000 miles to minimize the marginal cost.

    I disconnected the upper hose at the radiator when I replaced my cooling fans and didn't think it was difficult using hose clamp pliers.
     
  6. AZDriverMan

    AZDriverMan Member

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    I had them do the service, and they put dye in to see if they could find the leak. They said to come in around 500 miles to see if they can find where the leak is. Will the condenser show this leak? I believe this component is covered under extended warranty (platinum). (They did say the cooling problem could be the "O-ring," and that could be why the coolant leaks.

    As for the radiator hoses, I got a second opinion. The guy agreed, and he charged $385, because the labor is difficult with removing an engine compartment (cannot remember which one). I went ahead and did it because the radiator hoses were swelling, which denotes that it needs to be replaced.

    It did have cooling problems, and they confirmed it. They said that the coolant was low, and they put dye in to see if there is a leak. I am to go back in 500 miles. I should have probably not done the Service, but if they found a leak, the warranty would cover it.
     
  7. AZDriverMan

    AZDriverMan Member

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    I do see what you all mean by the prices. They wanted to quote me $80 for the cabin air filter and engine filter, which I did myself in 5 minutes, buying another companies filters, for only $37 including tax. Essentially, the Toyota parts would have been $45, so that means they wanted $35 for labor! Which would have been 5 minutes.
     
  8. css28

    css28 Senior Member

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    Per the manual for the Gen 3 (which is a different car, but should be similar) each radiator hose costs $18 and the labor to replace is 1.1 hours each.

    It sounds high.
     
  9. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    One difference between G2 and G3 is the former has the engine coolant heat recovery system which is not easy to purge air out of. So it is reasonable that G2 engine cooling system service could take more labor time.
     
  10. AZDriverMan

    AZDriverMan Member

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    It probably took them about 6.5 to 7 hours (total time car was at the shop). The mechanic said it is not easy to replace the hoses, as you said.
     
  11. lech auto air conditionin

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    As for your A/c I would highly recommend recharging it. Pruis a/c compressors do not like running low on refrigerant charge. Yes completely removing the refrigerant is the correct way to preform a a/c service. NEVER! let any one just top off the refrigerant. It will cost a little more to do it the right way at first but will save you a cost of a compressor and condenser later if the a/c system is improperly recharged. Adding dye is a good thing if it is a good quality dye, but a electric refrigerant leak detector is the first method used to find refrigerant leaks, then dye 2ed, your eyes only find big leaks. As for the cost The time and the equipment are quite expensive and if the shop you take your Prius to is fully equipped with a/c service tools for servicing and diagnostics and separate a/c recharge/recycle machines, one for hybrid cars using ESTER oil and another one for normal cars using PAG oil this is now a large expense for the shops to service your car. Now the shops that want to stay in the A/C repair will have all new equipment because of the E.P.A new refrigerant R1234yf that must only use a dedicated recovery/ recycle machine for the new refrigerant doubling the cost for shops to service a customers cars. So $200 not bad at all, there are some that charge a bit more. It is the shops that always have a special cheap price, are the ones to be afraid of!. It may cost you more in the long run for that NOW lower price. I get most of my air conditioning work from cars that have already been serviced by the good price shops or body shops.
    So have your a/c serviced and keep it full of refrigerant, ( that is one of the #1 life extender for a electric a/c compressor) The other is keeping your car away from unqualified repair shops.

    Here is a question to " un-qualify a shop to do your a/c service"... Ask this question(?) ( When your mechanic tested my refrigerant with your refrigerant analyzer, what was the % of air mixed with my old refrigerant before they removed it). They should have one , MUST! would be a better word. For at least the last 20 years. I hope they fine that leak for you, it is not always found the first time so be patient. And yes the condenser is the # one source of refrigerant leaks on a prius. If this is the case with yours only have a OEM DENSO replacement condenser installed on your prius, it makes a difference.
     
    nh7o likes this.
  12. AZDriverMan

    AZDriverMan Member

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    Thanks for the info. I am driving it for a while, and bringing it back after 500 miles, so that the dealership can hopefully find the leak. What is the electric refrigerant leak detector? The Toyota dealership did not mention this; they only mentioned using dye. I believe that since the car was low on refrigerant, that there is probably a leak. They said that there could be a leak. However, I know I had the recharge last year done, so I believe there is probably a leak.
     
  13. lech auto air conditionin

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    Yes you do have a leak, refrigerant only leaks out, it dose not get used up like gasoline for your engine. Trace Dye is only a second method to search for a leak. Some leaks are vary difficult to fine even with a electronic refrigerant leak detector and dye. But many times I have come across cars with Tracer dye in the a/c system and the car has many vary small leaks on the tubes of the condenser and no dye or oil has appeared on the face of the condenser, only a " GOOD" refrigerant leak detector "PROPERLY " used will fined this kind of leak and it is "TIME" consuming.
    I'm waiting to what your Toyota dealer finds (y)
     
  14. AZDriverMan

    AZDriverMan Member

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    Well, I took the car back into the dealer, and I had driven it probably 500 miles or so, and they still were unable to find a leak. I am unsure if they used "electronic refrigerant leak detector and dye." They used "dye," is what I was told. I suppose it could be a "minor" leak; however, I know the last time the A/C was recharged was last year. What do you think this means? Will this be an eventual find or would it be a good idea to inquire about the "electronic refrigerant leak detector and dye"?
     
  15. lech auto air conditionin

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    A one year leak rate is a large leak, but keep this in mind what was considered a vary small leak 10 years ago on a older a/c system when the average car refrigerant capacity was 2.2 LBS. = 1Kg. A loss of 3oz. to 4oz. refrigerant was average and did not affect the performance of of the air conditioning or shorten the life of the compressor. On the Prius that has a system capacity 12oz. to 14oz. = 420g. to 480g. @ most 550g. on the older Pruis now remove just remove 3 to 4 oz. this is now a large leak. On a cool day( 55 F to 68 F ) this will not affect the dash duct TEMP, you will still get 39 F to 43 F out the duct as a min TEMP reading. On a mildly warm day ( 70 F to 78 F ) you may get duct TEMPs of 44 F to 46 F BUT! on a hotter day ( 80+ ) is when the call for 100% a/c is needed and your car has been sitting in the parking lot under the sun add to that 2 or 3 sweaty people, maybe add high humidity depending what part of the country you are located. This is when that 3 to 4 oz make all the difference in the world as for cooling is concerned. Now all the TEMP avg I provided all depend and do change with out side humidity 30% to 95% level and sun load high noon summer time with clean clear skys or early morning , late after noon hazy , part cloudy that will reduce the direct IR =( infrared ) striking the interior of your car not to mention if your car is red or black that will even get even hotter.

    1: As for your question about the electronic leak detector. It is only as good as the TECH using the tool ( years of replacing parts dose not make a good experienced TECH ) it is only as good as the quality of the tool being used and even the best tool with a dirty tip or oil or water that got sucked up into sensor and the TECH dose not know how to maintain or service or calibrate the tool. The leak will not be found. 95% of the refrigerant leak detectors are not sold with a refrigerant calibrate tool. It cost extra money , means lost sales to the tool maker or dealer and to the shop owner or TECH higher cost. Its sad when the ones in charge do not even know o_O o_O what they don't know. (n):cry: :cry:

    2: As for your question about refrigerant leak detector dye this to is governed by the quality of dye ( they are not all equal, this is for sure ) add to that the the UV ( ultraviolet light ) LEDs used, Lux output of the LEDs and the wavelength that are tune into the spectrum of that UV trace dye used that to is different for different dye manufactures. In my photo album I show photos of different UV dyes and UV lights , I'v owned them all other are of such poor quality I would not even bother buying them to test but yet I see them used in many auto repair shops every day because they were CHEAP!.
    Keep a eye on on your condenser ( I have photos showing what leaks look like in my photo album ) . Don't let your a/c run too low on refrigerant and try to find the leak again in a few months.
     
  16. AZDriverMan

    AZDriverMan Member

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    I will definitely check the leak again in a few months. I called up the service advisor because sometimes the car takes 10-15 minutes to start having cold air come out of the vents. (I do use a sun shade whenever the car is parked in the sun or partial shade.) I realized though it was because ambient temperatures are 106-108 and the system gets really hot. Also, he said sometimes the "O-rings" account for some of the lost refrigerant. He said that there is an acceptable loss of refrigerant over time. I hope when Toyota checks again that they will not charge me again.

    I wonder if part of the A/C issue is that it is leaking Freon quickly. It was just a few weeks ago when I got the A/C originally serviced. I doubt it would be that quickly though. Also, I changed the cabin air filter and engine air filter a couple of weeks ago, so that shouldn't have an effect on the A/C, since they are relatively new.