Taxi of Tomorrow in New York Doesn’t Include a Diesel

To what ? 25 mpg ? 30 mpg ?

When diesels the size of a Prius Vagon in the city hit 45 mpg US or so, let us know.

 

An interesting question because I understand London has a congestion charge for non-electric, personal vehicles. I wonder how taxi are handled as the Wiki article does not say?

I see some references to carbon rates per mile but how that relates to this vehicle in a diesel configuration is not clear.

Bob Wilson

 

When the Pv comes with non hybrid gas and diesel options, that will be a fair reply to austin's post.

I believe all here have acknowledged that a hybrid is likely to be the superior choice for an in town taxi.

The main subject of the thread is the NV200 though. There is no hybrid option for it. NYC is only getting a gasoline powered one, but diesel is available elsewhere. While diesels are known good highway economy, they do have a lower that gasser idling fuel consumption. So low that letting a car idle to warm up on a cold morning may not work because not enough waste heat is being generated.

Why Nissan isn't offering the diesel here? They don't want to certify the engine, and depending on how they decide to handle emissions might negate any fuel economy advantage a diesel might have. The the cost of diesel here might of had the commission and taxi industry nix it before evening looking at it.

 

Under the NEDC fuel economy testing, diesels tend to produce less CO2 than gasoline models. Don't know about London, but some regions have regulations based on engine displacement. The diesel in the NV200 is a half liter smaller than the gasoline. I do know above its 1.5L displacement incurs extra taxes in China. At least gasoline engines.

 

My point is that the Prius Vagon whips the NV200 petrol or diesel, so I am just not interested in worrying which of two inferior choices are superior one to the other.


It is true though that the taxi companies are forced by regulation to have a fraction of their fleet wheelchair accesible, and it very well may be that an NV200 sized vehicle is required for that purpose. However, that fraction is just not enough cars to interest Nissan; and even it were NYC might have enough sense to avoid running diesel belchers along schools in the city.

 

But it matters and is discussed because of the NV200 and a Prius V, the taxi companies are more likely going to buy the NV200. It simply has more space and amenities(charge ports, climate control) for rear passengers. After conversion for taxi use, they will cost about the same. The Pv might actually lose rear space because of that.

Diesel belchers? If it were offered, the diesel would have to conform to today's emission specs. Cars with tailpipes cleaner than a hybrid's aren't belchers.

 

I am unaware of any vehicle with an internal combustion engine that emits less than a Prius, are you?

 

With a DPF, a diesel will emit less particulates. The particulate cloud is what I envisioned with the' diesel belcher' phrase. Their tailpipes won't have the carbon build up seen on all other cars. I think, at least some of, the new diesels with current emission controls don't meet ULEV or SULEV only because of NOx.

 

If by this you mean 'less than previous diesels', I agree. If you mean 'less than a hybrid', I have not seen that to be true.

As to the original article, whining that Nissan did not EPA certify a diesel for taxis in one city is just whining. Hinting that Hybrids are not tested as taxis is just lying.

 

Civic Hybrid
Civic Natural Gas
Sonata Hybrid
Optima Hybrid

Unless we're talking about CO2 (but I don't hear as many complaints about CO2 near schools as other pollutants)

 

I agree.

There are several independent studies showing that the particle emissions from diesel engines with DPF are lower than ambient; they are actually serving as air filters.

Most of the diesels currently available in California are certified as ULEV. They don't meet SULEV generally because of NOx.

 

You must have numbers newer than I know
Emission Comparison: Prius / HS250h / Insight / Civic Hybrid / Jetta (Gas+TDI) / WRX STI | PriusChat

 

Those 4 can all be had as Tier 2 Bin 2, think the Prius is Tier 2 Bin 3.

 

The NV200 is designed to pass crash tests with its taxi configuration, the prius v is not. How much this matters is anyone's guess. The key improvements though of a less smelly cab because of interior materials, as well as usb and charge ports are sure to keep the NV200 higher on cab companies lists. The back seat should also be nicer than the prius v.

I haven't seen the emissions from the London diesel cabs. I'm sure someone can find them. They should be much cleaner than the crown vics that the NYC cabs are replacing. I'm sure they exceed euro 6. It would be nice if they allowed camry and fusion hybrids in the future. It looks like starting in 2014 new ones will no longer be allowed to join the taxi fleets.

 

What does the inside of your Prius v look like? Any black build up is soot from particulates. On a TDI Golf or Jetta, the tailpipe can still look unused after thousands of miles from the lack of soot.

I am well aware of the success of the Escape hybrid taxi test fleet in NYC. It is shortsighted of this commission to limit hybrids for taxi use. Even if they allowed more, it doesn't change the fact that Toyota or Ford haven't crash tested their hybrids with taxi equipment, and don't recommend their use for that reason. Crown Vic police cruisers became less safe in event of a rear end do to some after market equipment affecting collision dynamics.

 

The lack of inclusion is NYC not the EPA. If NYC approved the diesel, I'm sure Nissan would have gone through the EPA procedures, as they undoubtedly go through the European procedures for the London diesel version of the taxi.

Ford and Toyota are the ones saying that their hybrids are not crash tested when outfitted as taxis. Whether you think that the modification with the separation requires a crash test is a different matter. The partition is likely to affect airbag deployment amount other things according to the manufacturers. NYC seems to have decided the future cab needed the crash test, but hybrids with 130 cu feet of interior space do not. The space requirement seems arbitrary and capricious. That may be the subject of another lawsuit.

 

1) you are correct, those cars are certified to bin 2.
2) Oddly, this does not mean that the Prius has higher emissions than apply to bin 2, just that Toyota certified it to bin 3. From a manufacturer's perspective, clean vehicles in lower bins can offset dirty vehicles in higher bins. Toyota apparently did not need those offsets, so did not go for any bin 2 cars, even when it had cars that met bin 2. (as I read the spec)

 

Keep in mind that with respect to particle (PM) emissions, the standard is the same regardless of the bin or LEV category, i.e., the PM standard is 0.01 g/mi for Bin 5, Bin 4, Bin 3, Bin 2, LEV, ULEV, SULEV. More strict emission categories are not more restrictive for PM.

If anyone doubts the effectiveness of DPF in eliminating particles, take a look at this You Tube video demonstration, especially at the 3:32-3:58 mark...

 

Reading this in despair. My local city (York) is actively trying to phase out diesel taxis because they realise the problems they cause with local air pollution, even the latest 'clean' diesels. By 'actively trying' I mean offering a £3,000 ($4,500) incentive to replace their diesel cab with a Prius (gen2 OR gen3).

Greener taxis for York’s streets (From York Press)

So it's bizarre for me to read that 'old' York is introducing such restrictions on diesel taxis, yet New York is now introducing them. Give it 5 years and they'll be realising their mistake.

 

New York is NOT getting diesels, Diesel fans are whining about that.