Beware Buyers

The PiP benefit is saving 0.2 gallon a day. But it requires electricity to charge the battery. Many power plants are still using fossil fuel to generate electricity. The PiP benefit is so small that it's not worth the extra money and the extra headache that I'll have to put up with. The PiP battery is dead weigh once it runs out of power. Most people drive 50 miles or more a day. They will be carrying a heavy dead weight around. Like I said, the PiP benefit is SMALL

 

You are making several assumptions, and you know what they say about assumptions...
1) It costs me $.18 to $.21 to charge my PiP at home. I get to charge at work for free one day a week. That lets me average 800-1000 miles on 8 gallons of gas. FAR more than a regular Prius.
2) The PiP averages about 10% BETTER mileage than a conventional Prius WITHOUT PLUGGING IN.
3) The PiP costs about $1000 more than a similarly equipped Prius 3 or 5 after all incentives and rebates.
4) I'm not sure what headaches you are referring to, other than the one from trying to calculate your fuel savings.

http://www.soundkwest.com/MR2/TEMP/temp/DontFeedTheTroll.jpg

 

Well, I should have stated that my bike is an ebike so, in reality I rarely get any cardio benefit out of it (unless the batteries go dead). I do think its a great investment (for me) but the ROI is minimal, if any, compared to driving my LB Prius.

But, your point is very valid about the PlP and the ROI

 

LOL. I knew someone is going to bring up the incentives and rebates. You can't use those things to justify the PiP. Incentives and rebates are paid by taxpayers like myself. Where do you think the money came from. You should be ashamed of yourself for asking other taxpayers to pay for your car, assuming you took advantage of the rebates.

 

+1

 

Perhaps you didn't know this. The internet has been around for decades and there are many old news out there. So why are you still wasting your time browsing the internet? Oh by the way, no matter how highly you think of yourself, this is a public message board. I'm not here posting information just for you.

 

I suspect that the savings in fuel cost is pretty low on the priority list of most people considering the PiP vs. standard Prius. Even though it pretty much was not on my list at all, my electric utility bill has gone DOWN dramatically since buying my PiP, having switched to a time-of-use plan and moving most electricity-intensive activities to the cheap off-peak time, and paying attention to energy-wasters that are on 24/7.

Other reasonsto get a PiP include:

1) Lessening emissions, particularly in states with clean electric generation. Even in states with "dirty" generation, I think that you still come out ahead.

2) Putting it to the Middle East oil producers.

3) Depending on one's driving pattern, a non-trivial increase in mileage, even in pure HV mode, due to more efficient regeneration.

4) Solo HOV lane access in some states.

5) Fewer trips to the gasoline station, which can be a real hassle.

6) Some people just enjoy driving EV, at least part of the time.

Of course, with the non-advertising of the PiP, even in states that sell it, it's not surprising that questions like this come up.

 

Taxpayers subsidize gasoline and diesel for people driving "gas guzzlers" too. Personally I'd rather my tax money go towards a cleaner solution than some nasty vehicle that is wasteful and is regularly used to roll coal on joggers.....

 

I pay more than my share of taxes already, or I wouldn't have been in a position to take advantage of the tax rebates. I'm not "taking your tax money", I'm simply paying less of MY tax money, in exchange for driving a vehicle the government wants me to drive, instead of exercising my free choice and driving something less fuel efficient/less environmentally friendly. If you don't like the tax incentives, vote the current batch of incumbents out of office.

 

I am not the one who brought up the subject of the rebates. If every car buyer took an advantage of the rebate, the government wouldn't be able to afford giving them out. If the government really wanted to be green, all they have to do is increase the taxes on gas. This would not only encourage people to buy hybrids, it would also get rid of the gas guzzlers. However, that's besides the point that I was trying to make.

PiP isn't worth buying financially and it's not that "green" either. It requires electricity to charge the battery and most power plants are still burning fossil fuel. Also, making the PiP battery require energy and resources, and when it runs out of power, it becomes dead weigh which you have to burn more gas to carry around. Over time, the capacity of the battery will be reduced and you won't get the 10 miles like they promised. In winter time, you won't get good performance either. It's a lot of money to put in and get very little benefits out.

I agree. That's why I hate rebates. I'd rather the government increase the tax on gasoline and let the consumer decide what's the best.

 

Sure they would, they just wouldn't be able to waste as much money on things like Solyndra...Again, they aren't redistributing tax money here, they're just taking less from the PiP and other EV buyers. Also again, that makes the PiP "net" price comparable to a regular Prius.

Several of your assertions are only valid in certain geographical regions. I live in the Pacific NW, where electricity is cheap, and green. Another factor you're ignoring is the California HOV access that the PiP enjoys, which is saving many members 90 minutes a day of sitting in traffic. How do you put a price on that?

Once again, your point about the battery becoming "dead weight" is completely incorrect, unless you are traveling over perfectly flat terrain. The larger battery capacity allows the PiP to store more regenerated electricity, resulting in an average 10% increase in fuel economy, to 55MPG observed.

Thanks for playing,

Ken

 

The 2012 PiP model does not let you charge the PiP battery from regen nor from MG1. PiP battery only get charged from the external charger. My assertion about the power plants is for the entire country. I was speaking in general term, not a specific region. If the government was spending money on converting old power plants into new plants that produce green energy, I'm all for it. That's because everyone will benefit from it. These hybrid car rebates only benefit certain people and it isn't really making the world any greener, that's why I'm not for these rebates. Letting Prius going on HOV is another thing that pisses me off. A Prius with one passenger (the driver) in it does not reduce traffic jams.

 

Actually, everyone benefits when someone buys an EV or PHEV. The tax credits are as much about energy security as fuel efficiency. Yes politicians could opt to increase the gas tax but in response to political pressure there is a better chance we could see lower gas taxes. The original hybrids buyers also received tax credits. Despite the credits the early of the first generation hybrids paid a premium price for their vehicle. However, the early adopters were investing in the future in terms of fuel technology and investing in fuel security.

Of course the alternative is to simply continue along the path until we next oil crisis occurs.

2012 PIP Base 179 mpg (gas only). Electricity is free.

 

Hmmm, are you also ticked off at friends who's kid's schools your tax money goes towards? Or that homeowners get a tax deduction?

As for energy sources, 45% of people lived in an area where the EV portion of the GHG emissions is less than that of a Prius. And that was in 2009. By now the EV component has gotten cleaner while the gas component is getting dirtier.

 

Every car buyer cannot take advantage of it. When the rebate law was passed there was a specific limit on the total number per car maker. I don't recall the number...but search for it if you want.

It is just about the government being green. It is about attempting to jump start an PHEV/EV industry. There are and can be many reasons for this. But cleaning up the air in cities, like LA, is a big part of this. And this helps everyone's health. Second, it is also about using domestic energy sources, whether they be clean/renewable or not. This limits the amount of imported oil. It also tends to lower the world oil price and save oil for later use where there aren't as easy of alternatives.

Mike

 

Prius in Pa,
Where are you getting your info? Did some car salesman talk you out of the PiP? The PiP does allow regen charging, just as your regular Prius does. And if you are concerned about hauling around "weigh" after the charge has run out, what do you think happens with your Prius? If you don't have occasion to brake or go down hills, you can run the hybrid battery on you car down low as well. The only difference, and perhaps what is causing your confusion, is that the PiP can run out of EV only power, (on the battery alone) after which it operates just as your standard Prius does, although at higher miles-per-gallon. It switches between HV and EV modes as needed, depending on speed, etc. If I'm in slow moving traffic, I will be in EV mode creeping along. You can only manually select EV mode with sufficient charge in the battery, whether it has come from regen or a wall outlet. (BTW, the charger is on-board, not external. You plug in the EVSE.)
I pay .12 per kWH, or roughly .40 for a full charge from empty. That typically takes me 14 to 15 miles of around-town driving. With 17K miles on my PiP I have averaged 83 mpg, with 71% HV mode and 29% EV mode. I owned two standard models prior to the PiP, and they each averaged just over 54 mpg. Not sure, since you don't offer any supporting evidence, how you came to the conclusion that "most people drove over 50 miles per day." I certainly don't.
If you don't like the PiP, or it doesn't pencil out for you, that's fine.

 

This is just plain false. Everyone who has a PIP knows this is not true.

Why would you join Prius Chat and start making such bold claims when you don't understand how the car works?

The question of "is it worth it" to buy a PIP vs a regular Prius...is a good one for open debate.

The actual answer will vary depending on the price you pay for the car, rebates you get, your driving pattern, the cost of fuels in your area, extra benefits (free charging, HOV access) and externalties (do you want to send you fuel dollars overseas or not). There isn't one answer for everyone, so it is disengenuous to make a claim for you and say it must be so for everyone else.

For me:
- 14 miles per charge of 2.7 kwh (10 cents per kwh, but mostly free at work)
- $2500 fed rebate, $1500 state rebate
- HOV sticker
- 12 mile round trip commute
- very few gas trips, thus 60 mpg overall on gas (10%-12% better than 2010)
- 70% of miles on EV
- a net of 178 mpg overall

Mike

 

rogerv!
Nice write up!
Great Job!
Maybe he will notice some of my numbers also!
Love my Prius!

 

prius pa, you are a downer. you are bringing me ...........DOWN.

 

Don't worry I'll send the nurse! You'll be ok!